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Old 10-14-2019, 01:33 PM   #41
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On that one a vacuum leak was making the TB try to shut too much in an effort to shut off the excess air. The TB locked the butterfly at full shut yet was trying to shut it more, making the whole assembly vibrate to make a noise from the stepper motor trying to repeatedly shut the butterfly off. Fix the leak, problem stopped when the TB butterfly then opened back up to make a viable aircrack.

On yours if high mileage the fans kicking on will load the engine suddenly to try to die, at that time the engine will do a big drop low. On the former IAC ones I would artificially jack open the TB aircrack to re-align the IAC to go the other way instead, it works fine on my '00 model, the lunge and drop to die has pretty much quit and been fixed for years.

Electronic TB does not have that option though.

Check for vacuum leaks and PCV valve not stopped up.

Last edited by amc49; 10-14-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:49 PM   #42
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You may have more than one issue. idle speed hanging high is TB too far open or a vacuum leak within idle fuel limits, when you leak past the limits the engine then tries to die instead of idle high. You have to sort out which issue it is. Changing the TB if one used same base gasket can do that, the old gasket leaks and adds to the problem by idle hanging high. The later TB is very susceptible to overtightening to stick too.

Normally, to cure an rpm drop from fans coming on you want the idle a bit high, but not high enough to make engine go high, it simply is enough to not have to make TB compensate by opening up, same as IAC not opening up (fast enough, there is some slight lag there, the rpm drop comes with the lag) and what I did to the '00. I basically opened it enough at TB to make the IAC think it needed to stay right where it was, (a neutral point of sorts, it didn't open or close) and the problem went away. The big drop comes when the controlling air method reacts to the fans coming on, the big load in power makes an older engine try to choke. I counteracted by making the engine harder to choke to begin with. The controlling air method whether IAC or TB is a bit slow, your rpm drop happens because it adjusts too slow there even if it eventually gets to the right speed, it takes too long. Why I pre-made up for it and already done.

If you have the same double fan assembly the early ones had, you can help out by putting a relay on one of them to stop both from coming on at once, one would come on and then the other separated by a couple seconds, that would help too. It lowers the electrical power load at fans on. I was going there but never had to do it, found the other way.

If you have idle hunting in speed with a new TB you have a vacuum leak, or possible inconsistent ignition. Hook up OBD reader on live data scanning and watch the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 and if it hangs too much below .5 volt you have a leak. Constantly adding fuel in trim is one too.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:55 PM   #43
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Yes, I would like to know what you did too.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:04 PM   #44
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You MUST READ, I have already said how I did it. First paragraph post #41.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:38 PM   #45
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At this point I'm gonna wrap it around a tree or trade it in for a fiesta 1.6 because I got one person saying it's my battery when it's not another saying something else and my in person mechanic saying it's my engine cooling fan pulling to much power when it kicks on because the motor for the fans old
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:47 PM   #46
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It's likely a combination of both fan motor and engine age. The fan amp requirement goes up on older electric motors when the winding resistance goes up. The engines as well lose idle rollover torque due to ring and valve wear that lowers compression, the engine does not have as much 'uumph' at idle as it did new, that quality allowed the engine to power right through a power hit that temporarily lowers idle just for a fractional second.

Get the battery tested at a parts store for free, if it passes the loadtest at proper CCA (about 500 as a minimum) then it is NOT the battery. You can change battery all day long and not touch that issue at all, it has nothing to do with the battery.

What happens..................the fans come on and the sudden power hit drops the engine speed when the alt suddenly ramps way up on charging. The TB then tries to adjust the idle back up but it reacts too slow for the older engine as it moves incrementally, it has no idea of where it will stop so it goes slowly. The 'almost die' occurs in that spread of time before the TB takes full control at the proper open amount to establish a good constant rotational idle speed. A new tight fresh engine powers through that fractional second like it's not even there, older ones can't. Same thing happens with the sudden load of power steering.

I've argued for a long time there should be an 'older engine tune' made available by Ford for older cars based on things like this, they have it in their heads not to as not doing it sells more cars. My view is that they are walking away from money lying on the table by not doing it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
It's likely a combination of both fan motor and engine age. The fan amp requirement goes up on older electric motors when the winding resistance goes up. The engines as well lose idle rollover torque due to ring and valve wear that lowers compression, the engine does not have as much 'uumph' at idle as it did new, that quality allowed the engine to power right through a power hit that temporarily lowers idle just for a fractional second.

Get the battery tested at a parts store for free, if it passes the loadtest at proper CCA (about 500 as a minimum) then it is NOT the battery. You can change battery all day long and not touch that issue at all, it has nothing to do with the battery.
In a previous post he posted his battery is only at 12.2 volts which represents a 60% charge capacity.
He complained of dimming headlights when the fan turns on.
I don't believe the battery will fix it, but probably should be replaced due to not being able to hold a full charge.



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Last edited by zacautomotive; 10-15-2019 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:56 PM   #48
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If true you may well be right, I consider a 12.2 if the battery already charged as a bad one, good from 12.8-12.3.

Could be an alternator issue as well.

My 'nothing to do do with the battery' quip was based on one being sound and known good.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:01 PM   #49
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I believe he was getting 14.7 with the car running no accessories.
13.8 with the fan running. 12.2 with car turned off.

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Old 10-16-2019, 01:08 AM   #50
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When I did battery and alt checking for the big O there for a while, I came to the conclusion that a battery will show issues if it gets around 12.2 volts even if charging correctly, and why I commonly spit that number out as one that is not good on any car. It is one I saw lots of issues on, I consider them pretty much toast then.
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