2000 ford focus zx3 shudders/rocks rough after shifting (while moving) - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.


Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #1
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fan#: 109481
Location: Brooklyn, NY
What I Drive: 2000 grey ZX3

Posts: 12
FF Reputation: 1 Zeroe31890 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
2000 ford focus zx3 shudders/rocks rough after shifting (while moving)

So I randomly started to have a problem with my car after I had my catalytic converter changed. Apparently they had to move the manifold to get to it, etc. Or maybe that is completely unrelated because it randomly just happened. Anyways, when I shift, either going into 1st gear or just shifting on the other gears, my car shudders forward and back, sometimes hard, other times softer, but it still does it. When it does this the speedometer fluctuates up and down. The car does have a lot of miles on it (greater than 100,000). Can people just give me a list of most likely culprits of what it could be to look into it. I'm a student and low on cash so I can't just replace every little thing until its fixed, so i'd like to find the problem. I also only need it for 2 more weeks, so afterwards I could just scrap it. Any help appreciated!


Zeroe31890 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Fan#: 108093
Location: Portland, OR
What I Drive: 2001 Red Focus SE Street Edition

Posts: 359
Points 523, Level 10
Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10
Level Up 46% Completed
Level up: 46% Level up: 46% Level up: 46%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 7 tmittelstaedt Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Who is the "they" who changed your catcon? Why don't you go back to them? I never heard of a mechanic that didn't give some kind of warranty for their work. And why would you scrap a car that you just put a new catcon into?
tmittelstaedt is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2013, 11:03 PM   #3
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fan#: 109481
Location: Brooklyn, NY
What I Drive: 2000 grey ZX3

Posts: 12
FF Reputation: 1 Zeroe31890 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Well like I said, it happened after that. It could honestly be completely unrelated. But then again, I have no idea. And they is the mechanic shop. As for my situation with the cat, it had to be replaced to pass inspection. And I needed it, or was hoping for the car to work fine for at least another few months. In either case, is it possible that changing the cat caused some issue with my current problem?
Zeroe31890 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-09-2013, 12:39 AM   #4
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Fan#: 108093
Location: Portland, OR
What I Drive: 2001 Red Focus SE Street Edition

Posts: 359
Points 523, Level 10
Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10
Level Up 46% Completed
Level up: 46% Level up: 46% Level up: 46%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 7 tmittelstaedt Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I would jack up the car and get under it and have a look. The torque link mount (dogbone mount) could be broken. I assume this is manual? If it's a MT then if you feather in the clutch oh-so-gently then will it shudder?

Usually a shudder on gear engagement on a manual transmission car is a result of the clutch having a problem.
tmittelstaedt is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2013, 01:12 AM   #5
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fan#: 109481
Location: Brooklyn, NY
What I Drive: 2000 grey ZX3

Posts: 12
FF Reputation: 1 Zeroe31890 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittelstaedt View Post
I would jack up the car and get under it and have a look. The torque link mount (dogbone mount) could be broken. I assume this is manual? If it's a MT then if you feather in the clutch oh-so-gently then will it shudder?

Usually a shudder on gear engagement on a manual transmission car is a result of the clutch having a problem.
What do you mean by feather in the clutch? I appreciate your time by the way. Its been about 2 months since I have been driving manual, so still fairly new.
Zeroe31890 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2013, 06:59 AM   #6
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Fan#: 108093
Location: Portland, OR
What I Drive: 2001 Red Focus SE Street Edition

Posts: 359
Points 523, Level 10
Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10
Level Up 46% Completed
Level up: 46% Level up: 46% Level up: 46%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 7 tmittelstaedt Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
OK if your a new driver of a manual transmission car then here's the secret about manuals.

With an automatic you drive with the gas pedal

With a manual you drive with the clutch

With an automatic you point the car where you want to go and push DOWN on the gas

With a manual you point the car where you want to go and let UP on the clutch.

Seriously!

The trick with manuals that drivers have to learn is that you have to kilnd of feel your way into the engagement with your foot. Just like if you were feeling around for a bolt head that you can't see behind a guard, you have to feel your way into engagement.

Some manual drivers never get this and end up going back to automatics

But most manual drivers learn it and then it comes completely naturally to them.

Feeling your way in also includes the gas pedal of course. You have to develop a feel for how much gas is needed during engagement

For new drivers of manuals I tell them the big mistake is not giving the engine enough gas when engaging the clutch. It's better to give it too much, and race the engine up a bit, while engaging the clutch, then give it too little. It's a lot easier to learn to lower down the speed of the engine during engagement.

But you have to learn to feel with the clutch.

Feathering in the clutch means engaging it very gently, and slowly. Try this in an empty parking lot. With clutch all the way disengaged, pedal all the way down, put it up to about 2000 rpm with the gas, and ever so slowly, let the clutch in, raising the pedal. The point at which you feel and hear the engine rpm start to drop, that's the beginning of engagement. While your continuing to ever so slowly raise the clutch, start giving it more gas, to try and keep the RPM at the 2000. As the clutch gets more and more engaged your now traversing through the slipping region -at this point the clutch is rubbing against the flywheel - you will feel the car start to pull forward as the amount of slip drops. As you continue to let out the clutch and the car drives forward faster and faster, you start to ease off on the gas pedal. Eventually as you continue letting the clutch out, the slipping stops, that is the end of the engagement, clutch is now fully engaged, and you can rapidly let the clutch all the way out and take your foot OFF the clutch, and now your regulating the car speed completely by the gas pedal.

The entire trick of the manual happens while your clutch pedal is traveling through the slipping region, during that time your really controlling the vehicle rate of accelleration with the clutch, not the gas pedal.

In your parking lot, try driving the car by keeping rpm at 2000, and varying the clutch pedal. You should be able to let the clutch in and out, raising and lowering the vehicle accelleration, all the while keeping RPM constant.

Shuddering in a manual is usually caused by when your travelling through the slipping region, the clutch abruptly stops slipping and grabs hard. That can be caused by the driver - by letting the clutch out way to rapidly. Or it can be caused by the flywheel surface being rough. Sometimes manual drivers make the mistake of "riding the cluch" that is, unconsciously keeping their foot on the clutch pedal all of the time. This causes the clutch to be slightly disengaged and it will slip during driving, and get hotter and hotter. This of course wears out the clutch quite rapidly but it can also cause the flywheel to get way too hot and it can develop cracks at the bolts, or the surface can become a little knurled. It can also happen by bad engine mounts that let the engine thrash around in the engine bay.

The shuddering basically happens when the clutch grabs then releases then grabs then releases then grabs then releases over and over again. Eventually the vehicle speed gets high enough that it grabs and stays grabbed.


If feathering in the clutch (feeling your way into engagement very, very slowly) stops the shuddering then it could be your just letting the clutch in too quickly and haven't developed a feel for it. This is a bad habit you need to unlearn.

A normal manual transmission with a driver that has had practice on it should be able to engaged in about 1-3 seconds from a standing start without shuddering. If you practice feathering in the clutch (very slow engagement, feeling your way into engagement) repeatedly, you will get engagement time reduced down from maybe 20 seconds down to the normal amount and it won't shudder. But if you find that you can never get it to stop shuddering, even with a very long engagement time, then there's a mechanical problem.

When you get good at it, shifts from gear to gear while driving down the road can take as quickly as a half second.

When you get really really good at it you can speed shift - that is, shift from gear to gear without completely disengaging the clutch. It's done by varying engine rpm during shift. This is why the manual transmission is considered a performance transmission. Unfortunately, generations of young 16 year old kids who read about speed shifting (and power shifting, a different technique also using partial clutch disengagement) think it sounds really cool and have ground their parent's car's transmissions into scrap trying to figure out how to do it.
tmittelstaedt is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #7
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fan#: 109481
Location: Brooklyn, NY
What I Drive: 2000 grey ZX3

Posts: 12
FF Reputation: 1 Zeroe31890 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
reply

Wow, thanks for the lengthy explanation. I will actually go out and try it. But like you mention, I fall under the category that takes me from standstill to moving in a few seconds. Some times faster, but its a rougher experience. Haven't gotten the hang of it completely but I've gotten way better. And I definitely understand feeling the clutch. Before I write it off as a possible issue with my manual driving lol, let me ask you this: a few days back this didn't happen. I typically have a jump particularly when I shift into first, but that's gotten better. The weird thing that's been happening hasn't been happening while engagement point is going on and its still on the flywheel. By that point I have been moving a bit with my foot off the clutch, so it should be engaged. Then I speed up and it begins to shudder and then it stops. And its normal.

Last night I went driving to test it out and it was just acting weird. I've never seen it react that way. Every shift was rough. The speedometer fluctuated and at some point while on 4, pushing the gas all the way down made it shudder. Keep in mind this was my usual shifting that just a few days ago was fine. So shuddering happens when my foot was off the clutch for at least ten seconds. To me it felt very unstable for some reason. Again this all of a sudden started to happen with not much change in my driving. If anything it got better, so this is why I assumed its an issue with the car. I really appreciate your time by the way!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittelstaedt View Post
OK if your a new driver of a manual transmission car then here's the secret about manuals.

With an automatic you drive with the gas pedal

With a manual you drive with the clutch

With an automatic you point the car where you want to go and push DOWN on the gas

With a manual you point the car where you want to go and let UP on the clutch.

Seriously!

The trick with manuals that drivers have to learn is that you have to kilnd of feel your way into the engagement with your foot. Just like if you were feeling around for a bolt head that you can't see behind a guard, you have to feel your way into engagement.

Some manual drivers never get this and end up going back to automatics

But most manual drivers learn it and then it comes completely naturally to them.

Feeling your way in also includes the gas pedal of course. You have to develop a feel for how much gas is needed during engagement

For new drivers of manuals I tell them the big mistake is not giving the engine enough gas when engaging the clutch. It's better to give it too much, and race the engine up a bit, while engaging the clutch, then give it too little. It's a lot easier to learn to lower down the speed of the engine during engagement.

But you have to learn to feel with the clutch.

Feathering in the clutch means engaging it very gently, and slowly. Try this in an empty parking lot. With clutch all the way disengaged, pedal all the way down, put it up to about 2000 rpm with the gas, and ever so slowly, let the clutch in, raising the pedal. The point at which you feel and hear the engine rpm start to drop, that's the beginning of engagement. While your continuing to ever so slowly raise the clutch, start giving it more gas, to try and keep the RPM at the 2000. As the clutch gets more and more engaged your now traversing through the slipping region -at this point the clutch is rubbing against the flywheel - you will feel the car start to pull forward as the amount of slip drops. As you continue to let out the clutch and the car drives forward faster and faster, you start to ease off on the gas pedal. Eventually as you continue letting the clutch out, the slipping stops, that is the end of the engagement, clutch is now fully engaged, and you can rapidly let the clutch all the way out and take your foot OFF the clutch, and now your regulating the car speed completely by the gas pedal.

The entire trick of the manual happens while your clutch pedal is traveling through the slipping region, during that time your really controlling the vehicle rate of accelleration with the clutch, not the gas pedal.

In your parking lot, try driving the car by keeping rpm at 2000, and varying the clutch pedal. You should be able to let the clutch in and out, raising and lowering the vehicle accelleration, all the while keeping RPM constant.

Shuddering in a manual is usually caused by when your travelling through the slipping region, the clutch abruptly stops slipping and grabs hard. That can be caused by the driver - by letting the clutch out way to rapidly. Or it can be caused by the flywheel surface being rough. Sometimes manual drivers make the mistake of "riding the cluch" that is, unconsciously keeping their foot on the clutch pedal all of the time. This causes the clutch to be slightly disengaged and it will slip during driving, and get hotter and hotter. This of course wears out the clutch quite rapidly but it can also cause the flywheel to get way too hot and it can develop cracks at the bolts, or the surface can become a little knurled. It can also happen by bad engine mounts that let the engine thrash around in the engine bay.

The shuddering basically happens when the clutch grabs then releases then grabs then releases then grabs then releases over and over again. Eventually the vehicle speed gets high enough that it grabs and stays grabbed.


If feathering in the clutch (feeling your way into engagement very, very slowly) stops the shuddering then it could be your just letting the clutch in too quickly and haven't developed a feel for it. This is a bad habit you need to unlearn.

A normal manual transmission with a driver that has had practice on it should be able to engaged in about 1-3 seconds from a standing start without shuddering. If you practice feathering in the clutch (very slow engagement, feeling your way into engagement) repeatedly, you will get engagement time reduced down from maybe 20 seconds down to the normal amount and it won't shudder. But if you find that you can never get it to stop shuddering, even with a very long engagement time, then there's a mechanical problem.

When you get good at it, shifts from gear to gear while driving down the road can take as quickly as a half second.

When you get really really good at it you can speed shift - that is, shift from gear to gear without completely disengaging the clutch. It's done by varying engine rpm during shift. This is why the manual transmission is considered a performance transmission. Unfortunately, generations of young 16 year old kids who read about speed shifting (and power shifting, a different technique also using partial clutch disengagement) think it sounds really cool and have ground their parent's car's transmissions into scrap trying to figure out how to do it.
Zeroe31890 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 02:49 AM   #8
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Fan#: 108093
Location: Portland, OR
What I Drive: 2001 Red Focus SE Street Edition

Posts: 359
Points 523, Level 10
Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10 Points: 523, Level: 10
Level Up 46% Completed
Level up: 46% Level up: 46% Level up: 46%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 7 tmittelstaedt Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
"...at some point while on 4, pushing the gas all the way down made it shudder....So shuddering happens when my foot was off the clutch for at least ten seconds..."

OK that isn't clutch chattering, then. That sounds like your engine is missing under load. Do you have any codes at all? It almost sounds like your fuel pump is failing or your fuel filter is clogged and your not getting enough fuel pressure at higher engine loads.
tmittelstaedt is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
What I Drive
Year, color, and model of your car. Example: 2003 Focus Centennial Edition Sedan
Name
Your real name.
City
State
Country
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Copyright 2002-2015 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Mazda CX-3, Audi S3, Mazda MX-5 Miata and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus, Focus ST and Focus RS related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. If you own other makes have a look at Challenger Hellcat Forum, Charger Hellcat Forum, Cadillac ATS-V Forum, Cadillac CTS-V Forum, Lexus RC-F Forum, Lexus GS-F Forum, Mercedes GLA Forum, Mercedes GLE Forum and Volvo XC90 Forum.




 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1