Dreaded Can't fill gas tank problem - Page 2 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest

Like Tree2Likes
Reply




 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2015, 06:12 PM   #11
Focus Fanatic
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 4,364
Points 15,855, Level 81
Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81
Level Up 1% Completed
Level up: 1% Level up: 1% Level up: 1%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 51 Marde Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
... the carbon canister does NOT vent the tank at fill-up, it is SUPPOSED to be closed, there is a solenoid valve to make sure it is...
It might not "vent" during refuel; but it does capture vapors right?
Never done it myself, but I know for sure that a canister can become clogged and DOES cause the fueling problem mentioned when clogged. The 2012 guy who fixed the problem with canister replacement is very believable to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
...
The tank vents gross pressure at fill-up through the vent tube to be sucked up by the gas station filling assembly vacuum port.
Never knew that. Really? The pump nozzle has a vac on it? Honestly never knew or seen this.


"3.5 On-Board Refueling Vapor Recovery

On-board refueling vapor recovery (ORVR) systems are designed to capture hydrocarbons dispersed in the vapor of the fuel tank that are displaced during refueling. Although the heart of the system is the carbon canister, there are a number of other valves and seals to prevent escape of vapor through the fuel filler pipe and preventing liquid gasoline from exiting the fuel tank when tipped beyond horizontal. The displaced vapor is directed into the carbon EVAP canister and trapped. During engine operation, fresh air is purged through the canister to regenerate the carbon so that it is ready for subsequent fueling or diurnal events. The purged vapors are consumed in the combustion process. Today, all new passenger vehicles manufactured in North America are equipped with ORVR systems."

from:
http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/...aper_Final.pdf
__________________
Always check your fluid levels, -then check your car.
Marde is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-01-2015, 07:37 PM   #12
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2013 Black 5-spd SE Hatch

Posts: 44,596
Points 33,746, Level 100
Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 21%
Activity: 21% Activity: 21% Activity: 21%
FF Reputation: 135 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
California & some other locales use a vapor recovery system built into the gas pumps to catch vapors from the fill tube area.
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2015, 09:42 PM   #13
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Fan#: 107858
Location: ottawa, Canada
What I Drive: 2007 wagon

Posts: 52
Points 360, Level 7
Points: 360, Level: 7 Points: 360, Level: 7 Points: 360, Level: 7
Level Up 20% Completed
Level up: 20% Level up: 20% Level up: 20%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 2007wagon Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I had a problem filling my gas tank on my 2007 and it was the purge valve. I am by no means a mechanic but it was a quick fix but the part wasn't that cheap.
2007wagon is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-02-2015, 05:02 AM   #14
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 15,329
Points 9,470, Level 65
Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65
Level Up 40% Completed
Level up: 40% Level up: 40% Level up: 40%
Forum Activity 48%
Activity: 48% Activity: 48% Activity: 48%
FF Reputation: 62 amc49 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
You don't get it. The charcoal canister only handles lesser amounts of vapor, not the up to ten gallons at a time that comes at refueling time. Not enough charcoal there. They are pretty easy to overwhelm, an 8 oz. cup of fuel can do it easy. Think about it. Fill up during summer and watch the HC cloud come out of the tank, the distortion of vision thing you can easily see as the vapors pile out of the filler neck to cling to side of car and then roil to the ground. The gas pumps have vacuum at the end of pump nozzle to suck that up now. The big black rubber accordion seal there. You can hear it suck as well. If pump has that big black seal accordion then it is a vacuum pump. Look higher up from end of fuel outlet, there will be a series of vacuum holes in the OD of tube and it's double wall now. Required in EPA non-attainment areas. Practically all of Texas has them.

Overfilling the tank is what commonly destroys the canister and you actually can bring them back from the dead too. BTDT. I've even made them before using like coffee can.

Activated charcoal inside the canister has an affinity for sucking up vapor. The canister CANNOT vent, that would be a violation of EPA law, it would then be venting at every hot soak sit in the hot summer with a full tank. NO-NO. These cars when they open for purge open both at the engine AND the canister to allow a complete flow path. The added airspace in tank allows for compression when the heat increases in tank while sitting. Why overfilling even slightly can mess the whole thing up.

It may be that later models do now use the canister more but it would have to be MUCH bigger than they were. No matter anyway, there is a vent hose that runs next to the filler hose, the main vent there. At least on the early ones. That vent hose open and they NEVER have filling troubles. What it's there for. And what about cars that have the canister yanked to then plug the line there?, they fill up just fine.

You can change the purge valve for about $15 by using one not in that entire conglomeration of parts there, a simple on/off open/shut valve that PCM switches on and off when needed. One of my cars has one off a Tempo on it and much cheaper than that evap valve assembly. Works fine.

Now you guys got me wondering how many cars the mechs run a simple coat hanger down through the vent tube to open up or remove crap in it like bug nest to then charge big fee for parts not needed. The free enterprise system at its' best...................
__________________
Fix the driver first, then fixing the car becomes so much easier..........
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2015, 06:03 PM   #15
Focus Fanatic
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 4,364
Points 15,855, Level 81
Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81
Level Up 1% Completed
Level up: 1% Level up: 1% Level up: 1%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 51 Marde Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
You don't get it...
I don't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
You don't get it. The charcoal canister only handles lesser amounts of vapor, not the up to ten gallons at a time that comes at refueling time. Not enough charcoal there. They are pretty easy to overwhelm, an 8 oz. cup of fuel can do it easy. ...
So the EVAP ORVR can only handle a little bit of vapors?; and the bulk of the vapors are leaking out of the filler neck AND HERE is the spot where your "pumps have vacuum at the end of pump nozzle to suck that up". That scenario may be factual in Texas and other places too, but please consider another opinion... I'm gunna mix in a few facts too...

None of the filling stations in my area have "pumps have vacuum at the end of pump nozzle to suck that up". I have seen the "big black rubber accordion seal" on a pump nozzle several times, but they are not common around here. Next time I see one, I will check it out, and look for the vacuum feature. The pump nozzles around here only have a face-mask-kinda gasket thing that if properly seated will make a half-arsed seal, and will prevent some vapors from escaping.

During refueling "most" of the vapors do not exit the filler neck. It is part of the design, this design is shared with most modern vehicles. The system was designed to anticipate and counter-punch the rush of vapors attempting to exit the filler neck; fuel flowing into the tank helps the system route the vapors into the vapor line going to the canister. The reason the vapors flow toward the canister is because the system breathes to <drumroll please> the atmosphere because the vent valve (aka vent solenoid) is NORMALLY open. If the vent valve was closed, the vapors could not move towards and into the canister. Once the car engine is started, the vent valve should close; the system is sealed -if gas cap is on; and the purge valve & PCM becomes the guy in charge of purging vapors trapped in the canister back into the engine IM. Additionally, there are times when the engine is running and the vent valve would still be Open in order to allow in fresh air as part of the canister cleaning, -er, "regenerate the carbon so that it is ready for subsequent fueling".

Purge valve = Electronic Vapor Management Valve (EVMV) on my PZEV.

I do not think the vent valve is always open while the car sits, that makes no sense, especially on my PZEV, but it must be open during refuel, or you will get the OP problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
... Required in EPA non-attainment areas. Practically all of Texas has them...
Did not know about that, never even heard about non-attainment areas. I looked it up on the EPA website, interesting stuff, also a little confusing because of different classes, categories, standards stuff. Either way, the 2008 map was neat; here it is->
Area Map | Green Book | US EPA

My county is "in it", so I am living in a non-attainment area, but for whatever reason, we do not have Your filler nozzle vacuum thing here; least not in the 3 or 5 gas stations I normally use. Guess we are a bunch of EPA reckless outlaws.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
And what about cars that have the canister yanked to then plug the line there?, they fill up just fine.
They do? All my guesses point to failure. Should have the OP problem if vent is plugged. Guess I just don't get it.


Pic below not Focus unique but please note "atmospheric vent" in the middle and vent solenoid normally open. Also note that my use of the word "vent valve" (many times above) is shown in this pic as "vent solenoid".
__________________
Always check your fluid levels, -then check your car.

Last edited by Marde; 06-02-2015 at 07:07 PM.
Marde is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2015, 08:44 PM   #16
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 15,329
Points 9,470, Level 65
Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65
Level Up 40% Completed
Level up: 40% Level up: 40% Level up: 40%
Forum Activity 48%
Activity: 48% Activity: 48% Activity: 48%
FF Reputation: 62 amc49 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
You CANNOT vent fuel vapor to the air, it is illegal. When we in Texas once stupidly went to HC sniffers here (lasted maybe 6 months before public outcry shut it all down) they rejected hundreds of thousands of cars because the canisters leaked fuel vapors. MANY BRAND NEW off the showroom floor, dealers did TV news stories on it trying to kill the sniffer use as it cramped car sales. In the heat the fuel expands in tank and letting the resulting vapor out is not allowed. Check EPA on that, and why your gas cap does not vent pressure any more either. EPA was actually in big Texas parking lots in dead of summer running HC concentration tests. The charcoal catches some but not 100% fuel vapor and the problem. Activated charcoal loses some of its' absorption qualities as it gets older, it has to be cleaned and baked @ 200F to get it back. The auto inspection sniffers were looking for 20 PPM and they could find it everywhere to fail cars. Carbon canister was a favorite place to check first to save additional work. Our best boy George W. Bush as governor then bowed to the popularity contest by rejecting the program shortly after it came out (around '95 or so) and then Texas was promptly sued by the compliance company for violation of contract and 200 million dollars (the company won). You didn't think I'd forget the politics did you?

There ARE canister valves but suction only to vent tank so pump can pump fuel, not pressure relief. Same with fuel cap. My Foci both have two purge valves, one at engine and one at canister, the norm is closed. I would think PZEV would be even tighter than that. You can't get toward zero by leaking a carbon canister. You realize if you take a closed canister and add a hose that then tees into the vent tube you have a vented canister right, simply not to air. Several ways of doing that, you could even vent into the engine air intake since much of it is sealed and baffled to hold vapor, OEMs did that for years before true PCMs showed up. Lotta volume there to hold vapor.

FYI, my '98 Contour has one purge only so the canister at least must vacuum vent to flow when purge is open. No second solenoid there, you can see the evolution of systems.

'They do? All my guesses point to failure. Should have the OP problem if vent is plugged.'

Yes, they do, the canister is not necessary for venting. BTDT, having removed them completely, plugging all lines to them. What you're saying is the vent pipe that runs alongside the fuel fill pipe does nothing? It brings the bulk of the HC vapor to the location of a vacuum to pull it off. And the earlier cars didn't even have that vent pipe yet still worked with no carbon canister port at all. The BIGGER leaded fuel filler pipe was big enough to serve as vent pipe since fuel could not cover the entire opening. Now we use smaller OD fill pipes to save weight and OEM cash. Filling them results in a stackup of fuel when the air rushing out interferes with the fuel going in. Even then, if you turn nozzle upside down to have the fuel shoot down bottom of pipe to sluice smoothly and properly you can fill tank with the canister or vent or BOTH plugged, you just have to think.

Your pic there is not year specific and means nothing, earlier ones vented to air but as the hot soak specs got tighter and tighter they did away with the atmospheric vent. It was at the point the cars were sitting and not running at all and still putting out more HC than an idling car that those changes were made.

'During refueling "most" of the vapors do not exit the filler neck.'

Where have you been? I've been watching the vapors come out since a kid in the '60s, you can clearly see them on a hot day, even now if no vacuum on the pump. Why the pump vacuum was created. WAY more vapor comes out of there when filling fast than any carbon canister could ever handle, sometimes maybe 50X the volume of that canister if say a truck. LOOK, it can cover the ground. Why EPA wanted it fixed. They forced the changing up of all gas stations here to accommodate that, it was a mess for a while.
__________________
Fix the driver first, then fixing the car becomes so much easier..........
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2015, 10:02 PM   #17
Focus Fanatic
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 4,364
Points 15,855, Level 81
Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81
Level Up 1% Completed
Level up: 1% Level up: 1% Level up: 1%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 51 Marde Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I might come back later and address some of your questions based on our banter/discussion/your most recent post, but I gotta go now and goof off with other stuff. Thanks for the discussion, I am learning.

I did not mean to say that we are venting vapors into the atmosphere because the vent solenoid is Open. I meant to say that the vent solenoid is Open during refuel and this allows vapors to travel into the canister; whether or not vapors are able to escape the canister (because the vent solenoid is Open) and into the atmosphere is unknown to me. I would guess some does escape.

This excerpt from a 2012 EPA document is very interesting (to me) and helps us better understand some parts of this recent discussion. The document was written with the intent and as an official directive saying that we do not need VRS.

VRS = vapor recovery systems = pumps have vacuum at the end of pump nozzle to suck that up...

GDF = gasoline dispensing facility

If our EVAP ORVR was as ineffective as you suggest, this document would not have been written.

"Stage II VRS were adopted by some states beginning in the 1980s to meet the ozone National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS). Stage II and ORVR are two types of emission control systems that capture fuel vapors from vehicle gas tanks during refueling. Stage II and vehicle ORVR were initially both required by the 1990 Amendments to the CAA under sections 182(b)(3) and 202(a)(6), respectively. In some areas Stage II VRS has been in place for over 25 years, but was not widely implemented by the states until the early to mid-1990s as a result of the CAA requirements for Moderate, Serious, Severe, and Extreme ozone nonattainment areas and for states in the Northeast Ozone Transport Region (OTR) under CAA section 184(b)(2). CAA section 202(a)(6) required EPA to promulgate regulations for ORVR for light-duty vehicles (passenger cars). The EPA adopted these requirements in 1994; at which point Moderate ozone nonattainment areas were no longer subject to the section 182(b)(3) Stage II requirement. However, some Moderate areas retained Stage II VRS requirements to provide a control method to comply with rate-of-progress emission reduction targets. ORVR equipment has been phased in for new passenger vehicles beginning with model year 1998, and starting in 2001 for light-duty trucks and most heavy-duty gasoline-powered vehicles. ORVR equipment has been installed on nearly all (~99%) new gasoline-powered light-duty vehicles, light-duty trucks and heavy-duty vehicles since 2006.

During the phase-in of ORVR controls, which began in 1997, Stage II vapor recovery has provided volatile organic compound (VOC) reductions in ozone nonattainment areas and certain attainment areas of the OTR. Congress recognized that ORVR and Stage II would eventually become largely redundant technologies, and provided authority to the EPA to allow states to remove Stage II from their SIPs after EPA finds that ORVR is in widespread use. Effective May 16, 2012, the date the final rule was published in the Federal Register (77 FR 28772), the EPA determined that ORVR is in widespread nationwide use for control of gasoline emissions during refueling of vehicles at gasoline dispensing facilities (GDFs). Currently, more than 75 percent of gasoline refueling nationwide occurs with ORVR-equipped vehicles, so Stage II programs have become largely redundant control systems and Stage II VRS achieve an ever-declining emissions benefit as more ORVR-equipped vehicles continue to enter the on-road motor vehicle fleet. In fact, in areas where certain types of vacuum-assist Stage II control systems are used, the limited compatibility between ORVR and some configurations of this Stage II hardware may ultimately result in an area-wide emissions disbenefit. Therefore, EPA also exercised its authority under CAA section 202(a)(6) to waive certain federal statutory requirements for Stage II gasoline vapor recovery at GDFs. This decision exempts all new ozone nonattainment areas classified Serious or above from the requirement to adopt Stage II control programs. Similarly, any state currently implementing Stage II programs may decide to seek SIP revisions that, once approved by EPA, would allow them to phase out Stage II control systems.
"

from:
http://www.epa.gov/groundlevelozone/...07guidance.pdf
__________________
Always check your fluid levels, -then check your car.
Marde is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2015, 01:52 AM   #18
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 15,329
Points 9,470, Level 65
Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65
Level Up 40% Completed
Level up: 40% Level up: 40% Level up: 40%
Forum Activity 48%
Activity: 48% Activity: 48% Activity: 48%
FF Reputation: 62 amc49 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hK1mw0Yvlo

They have turned around to put the vent back in the canister where it was gone before. They may have started ORVR in '97 but no way did they use the bigger canisters then, I don't have it in '02. It takes a LOT of charcoal to cover day in/day out emissions from sitting, tried to tell you. I can see rebuild kits for the canisters coming up, you can use simple aquarium filter charcoal for it all day long. BTDT. Cheap. Reckon that bigger canister will cost $300 at Ford?

Note the mentioning of previous charcoal canisters being way too small......Whad I tellya? Look at how much fuel evaps to clog the canister. That partial glassful is enough to do it with small ones. I also doubt highly the current 75% number of cars on the road equipped with the system in 2012; faultily counting only new cars probably. The EPA, LOL.

One day is all the earlier canisters held worth of fuel vapor.

I have not seen any canisters that big yet but that means nothing, I know mine are no way big enough. The explanation is there about how they must get MUCH bigger. The supply hose HAD to be bigger as well, it was a restriction on the smaller units and no way can handle a fillup at speed. Note there is also a new check valve at bottom of main filler tube to stick shut now too. One more thing to make them not fill up right. They will probably be dropping the vent hose to filler neck. There will still be emissions at fillup since the very act of fuel sluicing down the filler tube before the check valve aerates it to separate some HC, some WILL backflow out the filler pipe during fillup. I see nothing that replaces the station vacuum suck at fill neck there. The vapor pathway to and through the canister will have to be a 6 lane freeway to stop that.

And NO WAY will I be calling the air that comes out of the canister 'purified' like the vid does. That seems to say you can breathe it. Too many people will constantly try to overfill the systems when gas prices drop and then mess the canisters up. No way to account for the human effect like always. Of course, the check valve at bottom of filler pipe if sprung right will close to stop overfilling since once fuel is behind it it will cease coming open from fuel weight alone. That stackup and backsplash alone would be a hazardous spill.

Change........it never stops.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2015, 04:13 AM   #19
Focus Fanatic
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 4,364
Points 15,855, Level 81
Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81 Points: 15,855, Level: 81
Level Up 1% Completed
Level up: 1% Level up: 1% Level up: 1%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 51 Marde Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Holy cow! That video was really cool. Thanks for finding and sharing that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
you can use simple aquarium filter charcoal for it all day long. BTDT.
You have really BTDT? No, really? So you put that stuff in the coffee-can you mentioned earlier? Guess I am gullible, or just stupid. Maybe both.



Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post

And NO WAY will I be calling the air that comes out of the canister 'purified' like the vid does. That seems to say you can breathe it.
I agree. I guessed earlier that any air that does escape would include some vapors; during both refuel or during wait times. Separately, I guess my PZEV has that completely shut-off during wait times but probably not during refuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
The EPA, LOL.
Yeah, those guys are punks. WTF do they know. Whitepapers and Professors of Science and official agreements with the US Congress and all that stuff. Pft. Least you and I both remember the vapor trails we have both seen back in the day and continue to see today..... << deleted before posting >>...

Let's just forget the details of how the ORVR system works, how effective the system works, and move onto finding the guys that wrote that document and getting them to fess-up;

H. Lynn Dail, Environmental Scientist
State and Local Programs Group
Air Quality Policy Division

Glenn W. Passavant, Senior Mechanical Environmental Engineer
Assessment and Standards Division
Office of Transportation and Air Quality
U. S. Environmental Protection Agency

Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards
Research Triangle Park, NC 27711


Before I go... The OP (and future viewers) had a symptom that resulted in a fueling shut-off condition. Any chance at all this was caused by a clogged canister or a vent valve/solenoid being stuck? Also, if the vapors do travel into the canister during refuel, where is the vapor/air-flow going during this process if it is NOT exposed to an environmental vent?
__________________
Always check your fluid levels, -then check your car.
Marde is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2015, 07:36 AM   #20
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 15,329
Points 9,470, Level 65
Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65 Points: 9,470, Level: 65
Level Up 40% Completed
Level up: 40% Level up: 40% Level up: 40%
Forum Activity 48%
Activity: 48% Activity: 48% Activity: 48%
FF Reputation: 62 amc49 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Pressure differential and resultant equalization will make gaseous matter move around in even a 100% sealed container.............when it heats up or cools down the vapors move. Like said they or fuel cap can open under vacuum so cooling down can flow air one way there.

'Also, if the vapors do travel into the canister during refuel, where is the vapor/air-flow going during this process if it is NOT exposed to an environmental vent?'

I do not acknowledge that really, most of it goes out the filler neck, you can see it easily. At least on the older models. I do not see how the canister even if clogged can make a problem with that relatively huge vent pipe running beside the filler tube. If open it is a much easier and freer flowing vent to depressurize the filling process. The canister being full of charcoal has more resistance. Now if the car does not HAVE that extra pipe a problem there. Even so they will try to vent out of the filler pipe itself, the gas pump nozzle does not seal that off to backward flow. The problem is fully developed when the fuel going in is enough volume and sprayed in to not allow air to work its' way around the incoming fuel. You can often simply move the 'clock' of the gas nozzle around to find a position that even works then, just no one has the patience to think about that. If you stream the fuel in just right it clings to wall of filler pipe and allows a pretty good amount of room for air to bypass it going the other way.

Aquarium charcoal is activated charcoal. Some early '70s Ford charcoal canisters WERE quite literally sealed coffee cans with charcoal inside them. I took AMC plastic ones and yanked the old charcoal and recharged the can and used them for years. The air vent filter was changed for open cell foam and worked fine. You CAN clean charcoal and reactivate it afterwards by heating it to force out anything in the pores of it and then reuse it as well. Simple but don't expect to be told, they would much rather sell you the $100 canister.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
What I Drive
Year, color, and model of your car. Example: 2003 Focus Centennial Edition Sedan
Name
Your real name.
City
State
Country
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Copyright 2002-2015 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Mazda CX-3, Audi S3, Mazda MX-5 Miata and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus, Focus ST and Focus RS related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. If you own other makes have a look at Challenger Hellcat Forum, Charger Hellcat Forum, Cadillac ATS-V Forum, Cadillac CTS-V Forum, Lexus RC-F Forum, Lexus GS-F Forum, Mercedes GLA Forum, Mercedes GLE Forum and Volvo XC90 Forum.




 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1