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DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current) The place to chat about any Duratec 2.0L Ti-VCT engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

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Old 02-25-2019, 10:59 AM   #41
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I was really excited about this thread and was really looking forward to it, but the fact that a tune was used to test the bigger throttle body was a bummer. BTW the top off tune is not cheap, I am having second thoughts after seeing the results. This result tells me in-order to get a net gain of 3lb-ft and 6-7hp, I need to spend ~$500 for tune(tune+tuner device) + ~$120 for the TB. I don't think it is a good value for the money.

Mine is a flex-fuel car, 5-speed, it does much better with a full tank of E-85. (Without a tune).
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:06 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunascythe View Post
Most of us were asking if the TB added power stock. It was tested with a specific tune for the larger TB. We have also removed the snorkel, placed in a high-flow drop in filter and the computer (stock tune) adjusted to the increased airflow with ease. So yes, the ECU is capable of adjusting to airflow without an afternarket tune. That is a cheap power mod; you pay for the filter and you get about ~8whp proven by dynos. It would be a whole other story if we had to also purchase a $400+ tune to then get that power.

People wanted to know if this would be another cheap power replacement part. Not a $400+ part where you pay for the larger TB and a tune for it. Not to mention, you will only get those power gains under the same conditions and mods as the test car:



Shade-10 and Tom are both correct. You will make some power if your car is heavily modified and tuned for the TB, but you will not make anywhere near the same gains if you have a stock car.
I do agree with your point.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:06 AM   #43
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That's okay. It's not for everyone budget.

But... nobody is buying tuner and tune just for a bigger TB. Most people that are buying that are heavily modified or have plans to do so. And with the $200 we can include the TB tune in that price.

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Old 02-25-2019, 11:13 AM   #44
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Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

When we get the MST boot, we will do something along the same lines. But will provide temperatures. We may even have stock with no tune vs TB + MST intake with no tune vs TB and MST intake with tune.

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Old 02-25-2019, 11:22 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_RDC View Post
Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

When we get the MST boot, we will do something along the same lines. But will provide temperatures. We may even have stock with no tune vs TB + MST intake with no tune vs TB and MST intake with tune.

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Thanks for the update, yes I would really be interested in the test for stock TB + stock boot vs 63mm TB + MST hose, WITHOUT TUNE. I am not yet in a position to afford a tune for my car, hence working on cheap available mods one at a time.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:25 AM   #46
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We get it. We've been there before. Stay tuned for more info. MST said they'll next batch should be available next week for purchasing.

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Old 02-25-2019, 11:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_RDC View Post
Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

-snip-

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Thats all fine and dandy, but you have to understand that most owners do not have a tune for their car. I can see how someone coming into a thread with a dynograph that shows gains for a part could be misled because it is done with a tune, and several other significant modifications.

Perhaps put a more noticeable disclaimer at the top? And like I said--and RDC themselves--you will need a larger exhaust to gain the same output. This part is not a cheap part: at minimum it requires a tune, and then a catback exhaust system of a larger diameter. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:05 PM   #48
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Here's my thing. Focus owners expect to see MASSIVE gains from mods like this when in reality, this mod isn't JUST for HP. Throttle response is very important, especially out on the track. (I can attest to that) Will you notice 3-6 hp on the butt dyno? Probably not. Throttle response though? Heck yeah you will.

Another point: If you are doing modifications like this, I would expect people to be tuned already. Why would you NOT be tuned if you plan on modifying parts that are going to change AFRs and IATs? I don't think people really understand how much tunes take advantage of these figures to help the car run better. Just like with ANY other bolt-on modification, you don't NEED a tune, but damnit you'd be stupid not to if you want to take full advantage of modifications.

Last point: Tom is ALWAYS pushing about modifications NEEDING tunes to get full benefits from them. Why is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN, you decided to chime in about NOT needing a tune? RIDICULOUS
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:13 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunascythe View Post
Thats all fine and dandy, but you have to understand that most owners do not have a tune for their car. I can see how someone coming into a thread with a dynograph that shows gains for a part could be misled because it is done with a tune, and several other significant modifications.

Perhaps put a more noticeable disclaimer at the top? And like I said--and RDC themselves--you will need a larger exhaust to gain the same output. This part is not a cheap part: at minimum it requires a tune, and then a catback exhaust system of a larger diameter. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Everything is typed and and listed. It states when the tune was applied during the dyno sessions.

Also, this is for the tuned people and gives people more of a want to get a tune. Think about the community that is already tuned, they are jumping for joy knowing that there are gains.

If it were the opposite and we never uploaded the TB tune, the ones tuned would be sad because they didnt see a dyno with the tune.

Its either we make the non tuned community happy or the tuned community happy. What we did, made the tuned community happy.

And back to why I said we will do both tuned and non tuned dynos next for MST boot do we can have both communities satisfied. We werent trying to let people down, we were just showing the possibilities you had with our tune and bigger TB.

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Old 02-25-2019, 12:25 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaacer View Post
Here's my thing. Focus owners expect to see MASSIVE gains from mods like this when in reality, this mod isn't JUST for HP. Throttle response is very important, especially out on the track. (I can attest to that) Will you notice 3-6 hp on the butt dyno? Probably not. Throttle response though? Heck yeah you will.

Another point: If you are doing modifications like this, I would expect people to be tuned already. Why would you NOT be tuned if you plan on modifying parts that are going to change AFRs and IATs? I don't think people really understand how much tunes take advantage of these figures to help the car run better. Just like with ANY other bolt-on modification, you don't NEED a tune, but damnit you'd be stupid not to if you want to take full advantage of modifications.

Last point: Tom is ALWAYS pushing about modifications NEEDING tunes to get full benefits from them. Why is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN, you decided to chime in about NOT needing a tune? RIDICULOUS
How is it stupid? The ECU is capable of adjusting to the new AFR and IAT. Are you gonna buy a tune to get those scwheet gains from a drop in filter? No; because the ECU adjusts to it, hence why it gained more WHP on a stock tune. I dont think people understand how capable modern ECUs to small adjustments.

Edit:

Quote:
And back to why I said we will do both tuned and non tuned dynos next for MST boot do we can have both communities satisfied. We werent trying to let people down, we were just showing the possibilities you had with our tune and bigger TB.
Yes, I agree. I appreciate the transparency and honesty.
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Last edited by Lunascythe; 02-25-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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