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Old 05-17-2016, 09:44 AM   #41
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For those of us below the freeze line in the country. Most motorcycles just run distilled water and water wetter for coolant at the track. I'll probably just top off whatever is lost with distilled water. For future drain/refill would it be acceptable just to fill up with distilled water/water wetter? A test I saw showed a coolant mixture providing the highest coolant temps, all distilled water dropped it about 10f degrees and distilled water+water wetter dropped 15-20f degrees in the coolant temps. Obviously, living above the freeze poses a problem for those cars but I was curious what your thoughts were on this. Idk if longevity would pose a concern with that route versus the 75k interval the ford coolant provides.
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:21 AM   #42
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Antifreeze/Coolant has more in it then just to keep it cooler and from freezing , there are things to help with electrolysis , lubricants etc

I would run some Antifreeze/Coolant for those reasons

Tom
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:24 AM   #43
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http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...=189977&page=2
Decent discussion on this. thanks for your input Tom
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassMasterCHS View Post
I thought that running cooler temps increased sludge build up from cooler oil. That's what I've learned coming from working on my Jeep's 30 year old inline 6, so maybe things have changed?
This is a good question.

So we know that there's benefits of using a 180* thermostat, but does anyone know if there is any cons in using one?
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:20 PM   #45
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That could prob. be debated, higher temps are good for keeping the oil cleaner by boiling out water faster and thermal efficiency (MPG) should be slightly better as well.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:33 AM   #46
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^^^ I wonder if that's the reason they use this stat. I've also heard they use warmer stats because it's better for emissions.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:17 PM   #47
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Yes, that all adds up.

IMHO it's always good to remember Factory objectives in design when modifying for a different one. Virtually all "mods" are two sided, there's a loss for every gain even if only the extra expense. Most are a fairly direct trade off, the simplest example is ride quality vs. handling when selecting spring rates for suspension (and even there you can go too far for your objective).

Emissions being a fixed requirement, some decisions there are forced on the manufacturer. Short exh. manifold to CAT is an example, as that's the easiest way to get the CAT up to temp & working fast so far. Heated O2 sensors are only needed to get the feedback loop fueling up & running fast for the same emissions reason. Extra fuel & air injection are also used to "light off" the CAT by burning in it to heat it up fast.

Whether all of those make sense for overall emissions isn't the question. The standards are set to make having it fully operational fast the prime objective. (trade off decisions are fixed)


Normal emissions objectives when warmed up require both lean operation & 'cool' burn to reduce oxides of nitrogen. That's why things that don't otherwise add up like EGR get used. EGR by whatever method including valve timing puts "inert" gasses into the cylinder. That reduces the fuel needed for the oxygen present, and 'cools' the combustion product overall. Full volume of the engine cylinders isn't needed at cruise RPM for power, and the inert portion reduces the effective volume used for combustion. (maybe not a perfect description, but good for basic description of the objective)

Engine runs on the ragged edge of even firing at that point, the reason anything not being perfect leads to stumbles.

Much of this ends up with opposing objectives/results. We all know that lean burn (minimum emissions) ends up hot, the EGR does 'chill' that.

Hotter engine helps in a number of ways, from fuel vaporization for more efficient use of less fuel (less wasted as inflammable liquid) to the thermal expansion of cold air inducted. Even keeping the oil cleaner with less fuel & water contamination helps with emissions, as less oil ends up carried along with the contaminants when the vapors are burned (emulsion of contaminants/oil).

For added power/safety of the engine much gets reversed with the "cold" thermostat. You want to burn more fuel/air mix and have some leeway in temps for lean burn heating as limits are approached.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:31 PM   #48
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^^^ Thanks for the write up! I've been thinking about getting the 180* just for summer use, but I'm not sure if it'd be worth doing.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:42 PM   #49
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You really have to commit to it for it to be of any use.

Tuning is required for it to be functional, as fan operation needs to be changed to adjust the target engine temps. Variable fan on the MkIII does a lot to control temps after the thermostat is open, so if it's still set for a higher temp that's where you'll end up most of the time (same for earlier 2 or 3 speed setups).

Then everything else gets adjusted as well to go along with the change and take advantage of it.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:43 PM   #50
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100% add the 180 its well worth it , people think that when you install a 180 thermostat that its going to run at 180 , it isnt more in the 188-196 range right where it needs to be to both burn off anything that needed to be burned off and to still keep the engine out of the 210-230 range where it runs now

The 192-196 stock thermostat is mostly used for emissions , Federal rules mandate a given time for the CAT to fire off and many do this by low timing and high thermostat to reach there goals in that given federal time period

In my opinion if your do any mods to your engine then do the 180 thermostat , safer engine and more performance from it

Tom
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