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Old 10-29-2013, 07:29 PM   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
So there is or isnt a dyno ?

I have looked the car over good and removed it and see no difference in a load increase ( Load in a log would mimic torque on a dyno ) or butt dyno

I am going to have a few MK3 come to my dyno for some free testing and see what works , this will be some time in December

Tom
Like I said, you posted in the thread. I did this testing back in July of 2012. You were one of the first to respond with this-

Quote:
Why are you not posting what your air fuel is doing on the graph ?

Tom
I tested OEM, OEM filter/snorkel delete (no change), and snorkel delete/drop-in. But seems how you don't want to search, I found the graphs for you and put them below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2 View Post
Well, [email protected] on focaljet measured 6 HP gain from just a GREEN drop-in filter completely aside of the snorkel delete...
Yes, and the green filter is an open design which reduces the necessity of the OEM ducting.


OEM-


Snorkel Delete/Drop-in-


Same car, same dyno, same day.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:31 PM   #502
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And so we have a WINNER! dyn085
And a LOSER: 1turbofocus.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:20 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
And so we have a WINNER! dyn085
And a LOSER: 1turbofocus.
Are you really that childish?
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:26 PM   #504
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I don't think those dyno sheets prove that the snorkel delete makes more power over just the drop in. That just shows it makes more than oem filter. Maybe i'm missing something.

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Old 10-29-2013, 09:27 PM   #505
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And so we have a WINNER! dyn085
And a LOSER: 1turbofocus.
No, not really. 6hp from drop in and snorkel could be attributed to something as minor as engine temp change, aka dynoing after sitting 45 minutes, then re dynoing 20 minutes later.

Neither one is incorrect but one dyno session of similar conditions to a claim does not a winner make.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:34 PM   #506
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Im sorry I dont see in that dyno that there was a gain from anything other then the drop in filter
On Avg I see a 7hp and 4tq gain and its been posted that a drop in is 6HP and we all know a 1 hp + / - could be from anything

For the butt dyno to measure any type gains its about 6-8HP to actually feel anything which isnt that much

The dynos dont show anything but a drop in gain

In December I will do a stock Focus with nothing but the delete done and see if it actually shows any gains and much much more , there will be free dynos to anyone that comes with MK3 parts to test before and after

Are you serious elizabeth ? was that really needed ?
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novus View Post
Are you really that childish?


Of course not.
I am more like a whining four year old... usually.
Alternating with moments of Medusa death stare...

Anyway I can say from taking my freeway loop tonight that the snorkle delete does not seem to harm gas mileage when driving for max mpgs.. My usual run at 51mph is 47mpg.. and I got that same mpg.
The best mpg ever on that freeway loop has been going a steady 47mph and that just touched 50mpg.. (it is rather hard to go that slow on any freeway.. but after 11PM the loop is pretty empty..) Tonight it was earlier so I went 51 mph.. not TOO slow for a speed limit alternating between 50 and 55..
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:41 PM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post


Of course not.
I am more like a whining four year old... usually...
So you're emotional, and you throw temper tantrums on a regular basis...

Sounds about right.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:45 PM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Im sorry I dont see in that dyno that there was a gain from anything other then the drop in filter
On Avg I see a 7hp and 4tq gain and its been posted that a drop in is 6HP and we all know a 1 hp + / - could be from anything

For the butt dyno to measure any type gains its about 6-8HP to actually feel anything which isnt that much

The dynos dont show anything but a drop in gain

In December I will do a stock Focus with nothing but the delete done and see if it actually shows any gains and much much more , there will be free dynos to anyone that comes with MK3 parts to test before and after

Are you serious elizabeth ? was that really needed ?
Let me explain things the way I see it:
The snorkel is a source of turbulence and restriction, the air at the end of the snorkel is still basically the same air as where the inlet is without it, it's all up under the top grille. Removing it probably has a marginal (maybe even unmeasurable) gain. The small holes in the length of the tube cause extra turbulence and the tube is rather small and long to begin with.

The K&N drop-in that MOST here are using is closed-ended, just like the OEM filter. In the stock airbox it probably has to deal harshly with the restriction of the airbox...

The open GREEN/Cobb/Burshur Racing drop-in
(all GREEN filters) are open on the end and I'm sure get considerable air from the large hole they create in the end of the airbox...so this filter setup might already be free to draw air similar to an aftermarket SRI or "CAI" like the FSWerks Cool-Flo which looks to show about 8-10 HP gain.

With the closed K&N drop in I don't think you're going to see the +6-8HP and +4-5 TQ you see with the GREEN drop in, I think the snorkel delete (especially with the "flap" delete) probably has some effect with cold air entering more readily to that airbox duct in the upper grille.

My car on 93 octane with the GREEN filter feels a ton better than it did with 87 octane and dirty OEM filter, but on 87 octane even with the filter and snorkel delete the car isn't a revolutionary change anymore, only marginally improved. The engine note and power changes considerably between the different octanes...

If on 87 octane the butt dyno feels +6 HP, I probably have upwards of +15 with both the fuel change and the filter.

I don't have the cash to do dyno runs to confirm, but my wheelspin is ridiculously higher when launching WOT from a little squeak to legitimate problems with traction control up through 2nd gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo86GT View Post
No, not really. 6hp from drop in and snorkel could be attributed to something as minor as engine temp change, aka dynoing after sitting 45 minutes, then re dynoing 20 minutes later.

Neither one is incorrect but one dyno session of similar conditions to a claim does not a winner make.
They tested with stock filter and with drop-in filter, and with the airbox lid off and with the airbox lid on...
No snorkel delete...I think 6 HP from the GREEN filter is about right from my own butt-dyno. The temperatures have dropped, but the throttle response is so much better...low end power feels so much better...because the gains are higher percentage in lower RPM even in 85 degree weather :)
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:42 AM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Im sorry I dont see in that dyno that there was a gain from anything other then the drop in filter
On Avg I see a 7hp and 4tq gain and its been posted that a drop in is 6HP and we all know a 1 hp + / - could be from anything

For the butt dyno to measure any type gains its about 6-8HP to actually feel anything which isnt that much

The dynos dont show anything but a drop in gain

In December I will do a stock Focus with nothing but the delete done and see if it actually shows any gains and much much more , there will be free dynos to anyone that comes with MK3 parts to test before and after

Are you serious elizabeth ? was that really needed ?
And this is what I dislike about you, Tom. You seem to feel like the only way to drum up business is to continually bash all of those around you. Having met you in person I can say that you are a nice guy and I know there are quite a few members that can attest to your ability to tune a Focus, but I did all of this dyno work and can attest to its legitimacy. Being a licensed aircraft mechanic I am well versed in conducting an accurate test, maintaining parameters, and documenting deficiencies in variables. And let's be honest, that's all a dyno is-a test.

We're not talking about a random person at a random shop doing a few pulls at a local dyno-day. This was my car on my fellow aircraft mechanics dyno (last year, when he had it and his shop), and all of these pulls were done on the same day. Unlike people like yourself and [email protected], I have no possible financial gain from having done this testing so I am one of the best sources of information. Without the possibility of financial gain, that leaves me in a position to not need to 'skew' numbers because I have no sales that would be affected by it.

Considering the fact that this thread has nearly 70k reviews, 350+ replies, and numerous members have it listed as a mod that's been done to their car, I would venture a guess that my non-biased testing has been proven through the community-not just my dyno thread. This was all done over 15 months ago, because my dyno thread actually started after initially posting the graphs in my build thread.

In any direction, you're wrong in stating that the gain comes from the drop-in. I should have just copied the first post when you asked for the dyno sheet again, but when I tested I also did so with the drop-in in place while the snorkel was installed. The drop-in will not provide additional hp without the removal of the snorkel, though you will have improved throttle response. I have and will always state that for the power to be increased you must do both at the same time. I pulled the entire unadulterated first post out and quoted it below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085
In the sake of having information available to those who want to see random dyno testing that I do on my car, I've decided to open this thread here. I will simply copy and paste my previous posts here, and update only this thread for any performance testing/installs I do here. Up to mods discretion, naturally.

Here is my post from dyno testing this weekend:

Ok, wall of text to describe my data, then dyno charts below and analysis following.

First, the heat disclaimer. I didn't get the comparison between my originally posted dyno and these, but even on the SAE corrected numbers there is a constant 5hp/5ft lb decrease across the powerband. I believe that this is due to the 15+ degree increase from the last dyno runs and the current data. For dyno 8/9/10 I will post SAE, Uncorrected with Conditions; all others will just be SAE.

We tried to keep the dyno process as uniform as possible in order to keep the numbers as accurate as we could. The large variance in my initial dyno was due to making constant pulls with minimal cool-down, so we tried to avoid back-to-back pulls and also tried to avoid letting the car sit for long periods of time. Each different setup got one initial pull plus an additional pull to duplicate the graph. After the first three pulls (getting the DCT process ironed out), we collected data with the car in various setups to determine exactly where gains were seen. Dyno breakdown is as follows:

Runs 4/5- Oem configuration. Snorkel, borrowed filter, w/lunchbox

Runs 6/7- K&N drop-in, snorkel, w/lunchbox

Runs 8/9- K&N drop-in, snorkel delete, ram-ish mod, w/lunchbox

Run 10- K&N drop-in, snorkel delete, ram-ish mod, w/o lunchbox

Run 4:

Runs 5-7:

Runs 8-10 SAE:

Runs 8-10 Uncorrected/Conditions:

What have I learned from this data? Feel free to draw your own conclusions, but my determination is that our engine is nearly maxed out on air intake with the addition of the K&N drop-in and ram-ish mod. I say nearly because I do believe that the difference in my current setup when compared to other CAI's on the market will be covered upon the installation of the Griffin Ram Air (Newmission) mod. It appears to me, from the graphs that I have in comparison to manufacturer/members graphs, that we should be very similar in the end-state.

I do intend on fabricating an actual piece for my ram air, along with some pieces to augment the Griffin Mod, but the end-state will be the same as all of the piping will be of essentially the same diameter. I would be willing to bet that the Griffin Mod allows for enough air to not even need the ram-ish mod, but I'm going to do it anyways just because I can.

Also, as expected, the lunchbox delete did not contribute to any power increase. It does, however, remove some dead weight and contributes to a better (not perfect) sound. Definitely, imho, worth the minute of Sawzall (any Sawzall time is fun) time. I will be looking to pick up the required components to make a 2.25" dump right behind the rear drivers-side splash guard. I'm not shooting for the best looking exhaust, just something different than what everyone else is doing. And anything will beat the ugly stock turn-down.

Other noted issue: The removal of the exhaust leaves the already weakly supported (aka-flapping) rear valance even more of an air catch than before. I am going to fab a bent angle (nothing spectacular) to attempt to not only support it but hopefully deflect some of the under-car air from accumulating in that location. Maybe some pop-rivets to secure it. Someone really needs to come up with a diffuser to alleviate this issue.

Ok, wall-of-text over, thanks for reading. Feel free to discuss.
I think it's kinda cute that I thought I was already exhaust limited, but I was going off of old-school thought process with the pipe diameter. That was disproved after getting the Typhoon sent to me for testing. And the lunchbox delete only lasted a few weeks on my car before I re-attached it.

But I digress. This mod has helped many due to the fact that it is legitimate. It practically eliminates lag, increases fuel economy (ymmv), and depending on which filter you buy (there was only one when I did the testing) can be done for under $50 and a few minutes of time. If any other member did legitimate third-party testing then they would get the same results.
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