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Old 04-02-2017, 05:23 PM   #1
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Mk3 Suspension, Handling and Brakes

Here's a place to discuss:
- Lowering Springs
- Coil-overs
- Air suspension
- Shocks/Dampers
- Sway bars/Roll bars/End links/Braces
- Control Arms
- Braking kits


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Old 04-02-2017, 05:29 PM   #2
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Sounds useful for a discussion thread, as promised it's now moved to the Brakes, Suspension & Chassis section with a permanent redirect from the MkIII section.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:33 PM   #3
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I know this has been discussed before, but what are your opinions on coilovers v strut/spring combos used for spirited driving. I am not talking about a track day build or even an autoX build. Just something to carve up back roads and other fun roads.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:42 PM   #4
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To continue prev. discussion, lowering springs have a variable effect on body roll.

Progressive types have the least effect on initial roll, since their initial spring rates are not a lot higher than stock. Straight rate springs are the preferred type for ultimate performance, since they react the same at all points in their travel. More reduction of initial roll, quicker response, added predictability.

The progressives ARE favored for DD use due to the better ride over small bumps, just as softer bushings are preferred for DD suspension.

Sway bars (anti-roll bars) are intended to reduce body roll by partially linking left & right sides. NO effect when suspension moves up & down in concert such as over large bumps affecting the whole car. They serve their main function on turning by linking the suspension side to side through a torsion bar. Part of the force pressing one side suspension UP as the car rolls is transferred to force the OTHER side suspension up as well. This increases the effective spring rate on the side of the car compressing it's suspension, and reduces it on the side trying to lift.

At an extreme it's like standing on one foot, all the weight transferred to one side with none on the other.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Heisenberg View Post
I know this has been discussed before, but what are your opinions on coilovers v strut/spring combos used for spirited driving. I am not talking about a track day build or even an autoX build. Just something to carve up back roads and other fun roads.
IMHO there's no point to coilovers for DD/Spirited driving type use.

They vary in adjustment capabilities, but NONE of those are typically used once set, and it's just added expense for no gain. In any but perfect conditions, they also deteriorate (corrode) over time to lose easy adjustment capability. Added maint. to try and keep them useful.

There are selections avail. in std. strut/shock types for uses up to Auto-X/race level, including some adjustable damping. True racers even get top level ones rebuilt to their specs.

For regular use, they require NO added maint. over stock and perform just as well (or better) than coilover types.

The ONLY time coilovers work for street use is when someone wants a lower ride than achievable with avail. aftermarket springs, and that falls outside the 'spirited driving' category.

'Race car' for the street? Go for it. Practical DD/spirited driving use? Forget 'em.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:03 PM   #6
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Thanks for the input, I have been running Eibach Sportlines for 8 months and Steeda springs for about a year before that, all on St struts/handling pckg rears. I have been itching to get coilovers because they are the "cool" thing to get, but always have talked myself out of it using many of the points you talked about above. I wouldnt mind running straight rate springs instead of the progressive springs, but dont feel that running coilovers is needed.

Also, FWIW I have also been having an ongoing debate between the better performance of the Steeda springs and the better looks (IMO) of the Eibach springs.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:26 PM   #7
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It can be a difficult choice (springs) and one that isn't solved by going the coilover route.

Debated long & hard before making a choice, ending up with the compromise that fits my desires/actual use best IMHO. Not the cool choice, but most enjoyable for me everyday and functional for all purposes desired.

Slight drop & somewhat stiffer in straight rate with matching dampers for myself. Conservative choice, but a decent ride and good sporty feel at all times while retaining capabilities to go anywhere at any speed with good control was the objective.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:48 PM   #8
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I think going back to the Steeda springs will be a good choice for me. They handle a significant amount better. Having both sets makes it easy to do a side by side comparison for me, a luxury others may not have.

I always thought i didnt mind sacrificing performance for looks until I started running the sportlines. Dont get me wrong, they are well made and they lower your car a decent amount while keeping the ride bearable, but they cannot match the performance of the steeda springs. It has been said in the past, and was the reason my first choice in springs was steeda, that the steeda springs are the best handling lowering spring option for our cars. I might consider running either koni or bilstein struts/shocks or just stick with my current setup.

The steeda springs in combination with the steeda rear sway bar completely changed the characteristics of the car. The handling package for the titanium should have came with a a spring rear sway bar combo similar to Steedas IMO.
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Old 04-02-2017, 07:50 PM   #9
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The Eibach Pro type is aimed more at looks/ride with healthy lowering yet the progressive rate springs for ride.

Not going to get the same taut feel as from a similar drop on straight rate springs.

You'd appreciate upgraded dampers, particularly with the Steeda ones. Better match of damping will make them feel better. Stock, while functional, is no match for stiffer springs.
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
The Eibach Pro type is aimed more at looks/ride with healthy lowering yet the progressive rate springs for ride.

Not going to get the same taut feel as from a similar drop on straight rate springs.

You'd appreciate upgraded dampers, particularly with the Steeda ones. Better match of damping will make them feel better. Stock, while functional, is no match for stiffer springs.

Thanks (ONCE AGAIN) for all your input Sailor.
Our stock suspension is definitely one of the best I've experienced and high speed highway cornering is just mind blowing.
I suspect that the torque vectoring has a lot to do with that? Even in quick short turns, the car just sticks and still feels safe. However, that is more to do with preventing the car from spinning/sliding out and does nothing for body roll, which has the opposite affect.
I'm on the Eibach Pro-kit and I won't be changing them any time soon. I'd like to know what I can do to make the car roll less. I have my eyes on 2 things right now:
1. Rear Sway Bar (same thing as anti roll bar?). Importing this from US/UK is totally impractical so I need to find another solution.
2. Bushings - I've been told that changing the right bushings can make a huge difference. I'm keen to go this route first (best bang for back?) as I can get the Powerflex stuff locally. I have no idea where to begin though.....
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