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Old 07-03-2010, 02:01 PM   #31
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Posted via FF MobileThanks Norcal, setup to measure this way is so quick I think tweak then drive then recheck will be my method for the little adj., trying to keep it all straight to recheck before moving it might not be worth it for my small adj., more errors just from things being "jacked" out of place when making small adj. in my case I think...
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:01 PM   #32
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just for what it's worth.... as you change the rear toe you'll change your camber as well.

seems overly complicated but I'm sure it works. Sorry I know not everyone has free access to an alignment rack

btw I know it's not perfect like this looks like it is, but just jack up the car, adjust it a bit till it looks good, drive it, and re adjust if necessary. (you can tell I've done that before. LOL)
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:20 PM   #33
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Posted via FF MobileYeah, done the tweak by eye too, that works better than you`d think with an "educated" eye... I was amazed how quick this measurement method was, with the track info to line up the fishimg line, 5 min. max per side to get good #s! well worth it!
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:48 AM   #34
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From this thread, post-4, back in 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
we just did Matt's (mellephants) a week or so ago, followed the method outlined here

http://www.scoobymods.com/howto_4_wh...nt-t7388.html?
The primary info for this shade tree alignment process is/was located at this external site (right?)->

http://www.scoobymods.com/howto_4_wh...nt-t7388.html?

This link is currently broken (Error 404); so wondering if someone has a replacement link or a copy of the missing Scooby thread? Thank you.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:04 AM   #35
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Marde - the key part of the descriptions is to use fishing line between a pair of uprights (I used jack stands) at the side of the car, aligning them to get the line parallel to the car by measurement to the wheel caps.

Specs. given in that post show the different track front & rear for the MkI, for the difference in measurement front to rear.

Front is set to an even number of inches, rear to that plus half the difference in track front to rear. (2" front & 2 5/32" rear for MkI)


This was VERY helpful to me not that long after I joined, I see the title was misspelled so I can finally contribute now by correcting "alingment" for easier searching! (moved to Brakes, Suspension & Chassis)
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Last edited by sailor; 11-19-2015 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:50 AM   #36
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Thanks for the info and quick reply Sailor.

Sadly, something is just not clicking inside my head. I fully understand setting up the fishing line. My problem is-> the fish line becomes the first reference point for measurement; so what is the second point? -the (whitewall) edge of the tire?

Additional confusion is->
For the rear wheels, you said: (2" front & 2 5/32" rear for MkI)
That will position the rear wheels with some "tow out" -correct?
-or- was this info intended only for the front wheels?
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:19 AM   #37
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Wow, seems like a lot of my old posts are getting dug up from their graves lately.

Anyway, I have since learned a lot more about this method. Be wary of relying on the quoted track measurements, as they can cause you to create a trapezoid, rather than a rectangle, around the car. This has obvious implications on your toe measurement... Instead of blindly using center caps, I suggest you start with the caps but then actually measure string-to-string at the front and rear of the car before starting.

The main points are to make sure you:
1. Actually have a rectangle, not a trapezoid, and
2. That the rectangle is not a parallelogram. In other words, make sure that the sides of the rectangle are parallel to the centerline of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
so what is the second point? -the (whitewall) edge of the tire?
The wheel rim itself. You want a SOLID reference point that will move in direct relation to the suspension components.

Don't forget to roll the car back and forth a bit after each adjustment to settle any pressure on the suspension bushes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
Additional confusion is->
For the rear wheels, you said: (2" front & 2 5/32" rear for MkI)
That will position the rear wheels with some "tow out" -correct?
-or- was this info intended only for the front wheels?
This is merely so you can correct for the difference in front and rear track widths. If you set the strings equidistant from all center caps, you will have a trapezoid because of the difference in track widths. See above for clarification that you NEED a rectangle.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
...
This is merely so you can correct for the difference in front and rear track widths...
Ah! Now the brain clicks. This was explained & posted in 2010, but took me another 5 years to understand it. Dense? Who me?

Some of the earlier talk about "front to back" had me thinking of the front of ONE WHEEL compared to the back of the SAME wheel. Silly me.

Now that I have it, and really understand the setup of the fish line rectangle around the car... here is (hopefully) my last question...

Should all wheels be perpendicular to the fish line; hence zero toe?
I will also re-read this and other threads for the answer to that question. I remember from earlier reading that some people setup front wheels with a tiny bit of negative or toe-in; which pulls back a little (to near zero or maybe some positive toe) during acceleration... right? -No wrong, see post-40

My goals are DD with best possible tire wear.

Thanking you all.

Side note: I am planning to (maybe) make a test jig, that will seat on the wheel rim edges, and then extend away from the tire, and then extend to the front & back of the tire, to provide a better visual reference of tow error; as compared to the other reference-> the fishing line.
Same/similar test jig might be used for visual alignment of camber; which I learned about here/somewhere, using it with a plumb bob.
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Last edited by Marde; 11-19-2015 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:36 PM   #39
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Alignment recommendations don't change, this is just a measurement method.

Front on these at zero with any error towards slight toe out.

Rear is usually set with a small amount of toe in. ( I used 2/32" vs. wheel center)

How you do measurements can change as you get more familiar with how this works on YOUR car. Setting up the full rectangle can confirm whether your track measurements are correct (the adjustment for differences front to rear) and even possibly show if the suspension has shifted sideways at either end (collision damage/subframe shifted for possibilities). Once track and straightness has been confirmed, a quick check can be done setting up off one side at a time with measurements from the hub centers.

How your wheels measure can change how you do it as well. When using my '04 six spoke SVT wheels the center cap & rim edges were even, so after an initial check measuring from both front & rear edges to confirm where they pointed the rechecks after adjustment could be done with only a measurement to the front edge.

Shortcuts like those were handy (once confirmed valid) when I did adjustments/checks. My routine instead of setting it up on boards with pairs of vinyl tiles to let the tires move as I adjusted it by crawling was to make the measurements - make a change to the setting - drive it to let it settle - then set up the string for a recheck.

Also proved to my satisfaction that the surface doesn't have to be perfectly flat (at least as long as the suspension isn't loose) with repeat measurements after a drive & setting up the string again getting matching results on blacktop that wasn't perfect.

Your jig might be handy to look at camber, not needed IMO for the toe settings.


P.S. - one helpful addendum comes to mind, front wheels aren't likely to be perfectly straight when you come to rest before measuring. Compare both sides to come up with a total toe reading, 1/32" in on one side might match with 1/32" out on the other for perfect "Zero".
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:45 PM   #40
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^^^ Fantastic & very helpful post. Thank you -both.

enter Sponge Bob Square Pants narrator voice here-> "5 Years Later"...

I have no questions or doubts about it now.


Edit:
Making correction to something I said earlier.

This is wrong->
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
...I remember from earlier reading that some people setup front wheels with a tiny bit of negative or toe-in; which pulls back a little (to near zero or maybe some positive toe) during acceleration... right? -No, wrong.
This is right->
some people setup front wheels with a tiny bit of positive-toe/toe-out; which moves a little to near zero toe, or might flex into negative-toe territory, during acceleration...
((( stuff above later found wrong again with news from illinipo in post-41 )))


Great reference thread here->
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/w...e-toe-out.html
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Last edited by Marde; 11-19-2015 at 10:31 PM.
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