MK3 ST front brakes on MK3 SE YES! - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > Brakes, Suspension & Body Chassis

Brakes, Suspension & Body Chassis The place to go for answers on brakes, suspension, camber, alignment and more.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest

Like Tree24Likes
Reply




 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2015, 03:28 PM   #1
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Fan#: 53615
Location: san francisco, CA
What I Drive: 04 focus zx3, premium, liquid grey

Posts: 202
Points 2,175, Level 28
Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28
Level Up 17% Completed
Level up: 17% Level up: 17% Level up: 17%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 14 a car nut Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
MK3 ST front brakes on MK3 SE YES!

Ok, as promised, I am updating my report on MK3 brake upgrade to MK3 ST front brakes. Yes, it can be done. (The calipers finally arrived off of b/o this morning) The Motorcraft BRCF227, BRCF226 do work on the caliper bracket BRBCF 28, which makes the usage of MK3 ST rotors and pad conversion possible. It is a direct bolt on, with no modifications to hub assembly needed. I did find that the factory dust shield will work when you upgrade the brakes from the 278mm rotor to the 320mm rotor, but you will have to bend it slightly to get it away from the rotor. Some of the catalogues show these calipers to fit the mid 14 and beyond upgraded brakes on the ST (335mm rotor) but this is wrong. I saw the 2014 today at the dealership and it uses a completely different caliper tension/support spring than the one used on the 2013-early 2014 model ST. I am not certain that there is enough advantage to go to the 335mm rotor (which is approx. 5/8" larger diameter over the 320mm rotor), plus there are concerns about cost and availability of parts. Even the calipers for the 320mm rotors were on b/o.

Getting a rebuilt ST caliper has proved difficult; A-1 Cardone says you have to send your caliper in for a rebuild, O'reilly Auto and NAPA said the same thing. Even getting a Motorcraft caliper required a wait and backorder, shipped from National (Michigan).

The weight difference between most of the 278mm rotors and the 320mm ST rotor is between 3-6 each, not the 2-5 as I earlier reported, so increased rolling mass and possible reduced fuel economy may result. But the increased margin of safety given by the larger surface area of the brake pad and the resulting increase in surface area of the rotor means that longer life, and reduced issues with rotor run out or warping rotors are great benefits at a low cost. The brackets sell for about $45 each new, calipers rebuilt w/ core charge are $185 and rotor price will vary depending upon quality and source of rotor, plus pads and caliper hardware kit. (I bought Centric 125.39038 high carbon rotors locally for $64 each, your costs will vary).

I know that this combination will mount because I did it with the used calipers and the new brackets that I sourced locally. The Motorcraft calipers came with the numbers of BV61-2B302, BV61-2B294 stamped into them, which match the used caliper set I had on hand. But, I wanted to see if the 226/227 Motorcraft numbers were the same as the ones I know would fit.

So, now you know the answer to a question that nobody asked!


a car nut is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2015, 07:45 PM   #2
w/ my magic bag
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: The Jet city, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 28,927
Points 34,479, Level 100
Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 87 felixthecat Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Great 411, so you went w/ the earlier style 320mm set up? To cut rotor weight, have you looked at the possibly of 2 piece rotors in that size?
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bigger brakes then you- D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
R.I.P....Mr Felix, 5-2-02... 5-24-19
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2015, 09:38 PM   #3
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Fan#: 53615
Location: san francisco, CA
What I Drive: 04 focus zx3, premium, liquid grey

Posts: 202
Points 2,175, Level 28
Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28
Level Up 17% Completed
Level up: 17% Level up: 17% Level up: 17%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 14 a car nut Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Yes, I will install the 320mm set up this weekend. I know it will fit because I have already done a mockup mounting with the new bracket and used ST calipers with the pads and rotors mounted, but not with the fluid line connected. (At the time I did the mock up, I had only one new caliper mounting bridge, otherwise I would have gone ahead and done the conversation at that time.)

My problem with the two piece rotor is the cost; there is always a cost vs benefit ratio that I must work with, especially given my income constraints. Besides, I realize that the increased mass means that heat has a larger resistance to warping and the change from inexpensive plain cast iron to a mix of grey iron and high carbon content will give greater wear resistance and long life. Some two piece rotors that I have seen are very cheaply done and I have to wonder about their quality, especially since the finish doesn't give one confidence that it won't crack or warp. I cannot purchase a good two piece rotor for $65 each, so, alas, I must pass on that idea. If I could be sure that the 335mm rotor could clear the 17" wheel, I might have done that, but a quick check of the local parts people found that none of them had the rotor in the local WD and that a couple of them said it simply wasn't available yet, even if they listed it in the catalogue.

Even so, I still cringe when I sold parts and found people willing to spend $1000 for chrome rims and tyres, but they wanted the 7.95 brake pads! And even though I still do some work, I'd rather refuse to do a job if they want to try and save money by buying cheap, poor quality parts.
a car nut is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2015, 11:03 PM   #4
w/ my magic bag
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: The Jet city, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 28,927
Points 34,479, Level 100
Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 87 felixthecat Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Yea, I get what your saying^^^^^^^great your doing a st brake setup, for sure.
a car nut likes this.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bigger brakes then you- D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
R.I.P....Mr Felix, 5-2-02... 5-24-19
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2015, 11:08 PM   #5
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2013 Black 5-spd SE Hatch

Posts: 44,596
Points 33,746, Level 100
Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 21%
Activity: 21% Activity: 21% Activity: 21%
FF Reputation: 135 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Good work, maybe not the first to try but it's a great write up with the details.

"Stickie" by itself for now, gets asked regularly. (Can join others in the reference stickie later)
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2015, 11:13 PM   #6
Focus Fanatic
 
RonMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Fan#: 99230
Location: Littleton, CO
What I Drive: 2012 Candy red SE 5spd

Posts: 5,888
Points 7,038, Level 55
Points: 7,038, Level: 55 Points: 7,038, Level: 55 Points: 7,038, Level: 55
Level Up 44% Completed
Level up: 44% Level up: 44% Level up: 44%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 9 RonMaiden Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Is this really an upgrade? The ST's brakes have been a bit of a low point when reviewed and one of the car rags ran an ST at Leguna Seca and was the only car in the test that had to be flat bedded due to roasted brakes. I'd rather pony up a little more and go with a Wilwood conversion.
__________________
'12 Focus Red Candy SE Sport 5 spd
'11 Subaru WRX STI Hatch
'10 Lexus RX350
RonMaiden is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2015, 11:16 PM   #7
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2013 Black 5-spd SE Hatch

Posts: 44,596
Points 33,746, Level 100
Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100 Points: 33,746, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 21%
Activity: 21% Activity: 21% Activity: 21%
FF Reputation: 135 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Should be a good upgrade for a MkIII, the ST roasts 'em more as they work for traction control/torque vectoring. Not as much power/wheel spin from the std. version and street use for braking it's def. better.
a car nut likes this.
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2015, 12:08 AM   #8
Focus Fanatic
 
RonMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Fan#: 99230
Location: Littleton, CO
What I Drive: 2012 Candy red SE 5spd

Posts: 5,888
Points 7,038, Level 55
Points: 7,038, Level: 55 Points: 7,038, Level: 55 Points: 7,038, Level: 55
Level Up 44% Completed
Level up: 44% Level up: 44% Level up: 44%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 9 RonMaiden Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
If the price is right on ST parts it probably would be worth it for an average SE driver that wants a little more but I haven't really had any issues with the stock brakes and I do like my spirited driving.
__________________
'12 Focus Red Candy SE Sport 5 spd
'11 Subaru WRX STI Hatch
'10 Lexus RX350
RonMaiden is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2015, 06:14 AM   #9
w/ my magic bag
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: The Jet city, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 28,927
Points 34,479, Level 100
Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100 Points: 34,479, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 87 felixthecat Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
Is this really an upgrade? The ST's brakes have been a bit of a low point when reviewed and one of the car rags ran an ST at Leguna Seca and was the only car in the test that had to be flat bedded due to roasted brakes. I'd rather pony up a little more and go with a Wilwood conversion.
>>>I would also^^^^^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Should be a good upgrade for a MkIII, the ST roasts 'em more as they work for traction control/torque vectoring. Not as much power/wheel spin from the std. version and street use for braking it's def. better.
>>>I'd think the same for the n/a mk111, similar to the wrx's.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bigger brakes then you- D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
R.I.P....Mr Felix, 5-2-02... 5-24-19
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2015, 05:50 PM   #10
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Fan#: 53615
Location: san francisco, CA
What I Drive: 04 focus zx3, premium, liquid grey

Posts: 202
Points 2,175, Level 28
Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28 Points: 2,175, Level: 28
Level Up 17% Completed
Level up: 17% Level up: 17% Level up: 17%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 14 a car nut Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I'm disappointed that it's necessary to do this at all; all of my MK1 Focus required the upgrade (SVT) due to warping stock sized rotors on a regular basis. My 1972 Ford Pinto Country Squire Wagon never warped rotors, it needed only to replace pads until the rotor hit its minimum thickness point. The upgrade is for street vehicles, here in San Francisco rotors warp; its just a fact of life on the OEM front rotors. My MK3 needs a rotor machine for the second time in less than 40k miles, while the factory pads have over 50%remaining.

The good news here is that the Ford One project has made swapping parts much easier; thus, a MK3 SE owner could upgrade from the 278mm rotor all the way up to the 335mm ST rotor used since mid-2014, if he/she wants to without having to swap the spindle/knuckle assembly and the additional costs associated with that. As more Escapes/ST get salvaged, the used parts availability will get better and costs will go down to perform an upgrade. Right now salvage yards around San Francisco are asking $60 and up for a ST/Escape caliper w/o the mounting bracket. In a most picknpull's calipers are $25 exchange + $8 for a bracket.

It might even be possible to use the 335mm ST rotors; the Centric catalogue shows that the 10416450 pad fits both the 320mm rotor as well as the 335mm front rotor for the ST; some parts catalogue show that the BRCF227/226 calipers (which are the ones I have for the 2013 ST) are also used on the mid 2014 and up ST models, but, from what I saw yesterday on a vehicle, that did not appear to be the case. If the pads are indeed the same, then it is possible that the 227/226 calipers might work if a different caliper bridge is used. But, I have no interest in doing further research on this.

In a quick measurement check today, I think there might be enough clearance to do the 335mm rotors and still clear a 17" factory wheel and it might even be possible to use 320 upgrade on a 16" factory wheel, but that is an item for someone else to check out.
a car nut is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
What I Drive
Year, color, and model of your car. Example: 2003 Focus Centennial Edition Sedan
Name
Your real name.
City
State
Country
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Copyright 2002-2015 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Mazda CX-3, Audi S3, Mazda MX-5 Miata and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus, Focus ST and Focus RS related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. If you own other makes have a look at Challenger Hellcat Forum, Charger Hellcat Forum, Cadillac ATS-V Forum, Cadillac CTS-V Forum, Lexus RC-F Forum, Lexus GS-F Forum, Mercedes GLA Forum, Mercedes GLE Forum and Volvo XC90 Forum.




 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1