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Old 09-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #88091
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Hi Jen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #88092
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Too much fappppping. Switch hands.
Not the bone I was talking about bruising, but w/e
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:46 PM   #88093
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Originally Posted by Aku View Post
I've always wondered if one would do anything for me. From 7th grade till mid college I would skateboard on the regular which involved a lot of tall drops landing on my feet (well the board) jumping stair cases and drop offs and crap. Also snowboarding too. Occasionally my lower back feels like its just compressed or something. Been condiering giving one a try.. . or just buying that thingy you strap your feet to and then flip upside down to decompress yourself. lol
Move to GR and you can use mine

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i dont fap with left hand! and i have julie for that hahhaa

also iphone conference link http://live.gdgt.com/live-iphone-5-launch-coverage/
I'm sold.

Go back to my posts around when the iPhone 4s came out, I hated on everybody that bought one hard but I think its time I at least give the iPhone a try.

of course this is also the first iPhone since the 3 that I can actually tell is a different phone vs the other models.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #88094
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Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 View Post
Move to GR and you can use mine



I'm sold.

Go back to my posts around when the iPhone 4s came out, I hated on everybody that bought one hard but I think its time I at least give the iPhone a try.

of course this is also the first iPhone since the 3 that I can actually tell is a different phone vs the other models.
my thinking exactly, i have had android for 2-3 years and i have a macbook which i love so it only make sense!
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #88095
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I won't switch just because of apps, music etc. Have to re buy all your apps, and have fun with music, etc... I like being able to just load anything on my droid.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:02 PM   #88096
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You attempt to make some decent points, but your bias is fail.
Similarly, what I should have said initially was 'most of the Chiropractors *I'VE* gone to' have a doctorate. Contrary to what you might believe, there are actually a lot of practitioners out there that do take chiropracty seriously, and that is very anti-quack.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
From wikipedia:

"In 2005, only one chiropractic college required a bachelors degree as an admission requirement.[15]The minimum prerequisite for enrollment in a chiropractic college set forth by the CCE is 90 semester hours, and the minimum cumulative GPA for a student entering is 3.0 on a 4.0 scale"
If you're going to quote wikipedia, please do so responsibly and include a link so people can read up on all the the bits you left out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_education

The only reason I can think of that a college would require it is likely because they are a smaller university that doesn't offer those prerequisite classes, and/or offer it as an accelerated course.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post

Most chiropractors don't have an md. I doubt there are hardly any who do.
These two statements contradict each other - 'Doubt there are hardly any' implies that you think there are plenty.
which is it?

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
It takes 10 years just to get an md,
It takes 8. Anything in addition to that is residency/fellowship or the student not attending full time. I would imagine residency wouldn't apply to someone looking to go into chiropracty since they have their own 1000hrs/1yr of supervised clinical training to perform at that point.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
then you'd be looking at four more years in chiropractor school. 90 semester hours is all that's required to start a chiropractor program. You don't even need a bachelor's degree.
"Requirements" vary across various years and across states, and the only people that stop educating themselves after the bare minimum education requirements are achieved anyway.....are in fact true quacks. Any serious medical practitioner - regardless of chosen field - spends a lot of time and effort on keeping up on the latest practices, developments, etc. long after they've finished their education and training. In fact, most states in the U.S. REQUIRE annually-continued education in order to maintain their practitioners license.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
The entire chiropractic "discipline" is founded on the belief that "subluxations" cause disease. It's a load of crap that has never held up to real scientific scrutiny.

http://www.chirobase.org/01General/placebo.html
The general concensus is that partial or complete "dislocation" (subluxations) of the spine can cause a lot of pain or even paralysis, but not disease.
Variations in the alignment of vertebrae in the spinal column, however, CAN cause SYMPTOMS of illness or disease, without them actually being present.
Yes this is anecdotal since these effects are very hard to study and reproduce, and the proper funding has not gone into this research yet.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
Most "benefit" people experience is based on placebo.
This is simply not true.
I started as a skeptic like yourself. I thought these people were glorified massage therapists. But as almost anyone who has studied psychology will tell you, strong skepticism does not foster placebo effects.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
If it's working for you, cool.
It is...and I agree, it is cool. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
But little of the chiropractic theories are based on real scientific evidence. To say that these guys are MDs is way wrong.
Then I guess it's a good thing I never claimed this. I say that many HAVE MD's, not that chiropractors ARE MD's.

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Originally Posted by Black&Tan View Post
Also what? We all have Darth Bloodclot lurking in our necks waiting to kill us as soon as we visit a chiropractor, who - as a formally trained medical professional - has most likely been informed about this risk but has for some reason decided not to warn the client before treating them?
Excellent example of how to use fear in attempt to subdue others to your way of thinking! You should become a politician...or terrorist, if you can't afford the suit.

Seriously though, any formally trained and responsible practitioner will not only be well aware of this risk, but inform their patients of it prior to the procedure.
6+ years minimum education, plus 1000hrs(~6mo) of supervised, hands on experience in the field + regularly continued education is no trivial endeavor.
We task people with far more critical tasks than that all the time with far less education (Sometimes, with as little as a high school diploma), and I don't see you being anywhere near as concerned about that.
Not to mention - I don't know if you've picked up on this, but malpractice suits are really bad mojo.

Similarly, If you genuinely want to be concerned with the risks of that kind of induced stroke, target the average masseuse, as they go through far less training, are not required to undergo multiple board examinations (as far as I know), or regular continued education, and are just as if not more likely to accidentally trigger this kind of stroke, but overall the truth of the matter is, that clots can happen anywhere, and can travel anywhere, for nearly any reason...to get hung up on one instance where the chance is ridiculously remote (as long as the practitioner makes you aware of it) just seem silly.

I don't really understand what your trauma on the issue of chiropractors is and why you would want to make them look like pikeys posing as spinal micro-surgeons, rather than simply state that it's not something that's not for you; but as someone who doesn't strike me as having as much education as a fully licensed chiropractor might, I find it bordering on hilarity that you would attempt to trivialize it.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:15 PM   #88097
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No way in hell I'm reading all that...

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Old 09-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #88098
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haha, I don't blame you.

ps - lol, so true!

http://xkcd.com/934/
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #88099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarwinSays View Post
You attempt to make some decent points, but your bias is fail.
Similarly, what I should have said initially was 'most of the Chiropractors *I'VE* gone to' have a doctorate. Contrary to what you might believe, there are actually a lot of practitioners out there that do take chiropracty seriously, and that is very anti-quack.
Chiropractors CALL themselves doctors in the same way that a PhD Psychologist CALLS themselves a doctor. That doesn't make them MEDICAL DOCTORS. There are only two designations for medical doctors: DO and MD. a DC does not equal an MD or a DO. All that is required to call yourself a Doctor of Chiropracty (or just use the label "Doctor") is to go through the education of being a Chiropractor.

Quote:
If you're going to quote wikipedia, please do so responsibly and include a link so people can read up on all the the bits you left out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_education
What bits did I leave out exactly? Where does it say you need an MD or a DO to be a chiropractor?

Quote:
The only reason I can think of that a college would require it is likely because they are a smaller university that doesn't offer those prerequisite classes, and/or offer it as an accelerated course.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. In the US you just need 90 hours of college before you can get into the 4 year chiropractor school and once you graduate and do your training you're a "Doctor".

Quote:
These two statements contradict each other - 'Doubt there are hardly any' implies that you think there are plenty.
which is it?
Ok... well... bad grammar on my part. You know what I meant. Move on.


Quote:
It takes 8. Anything in addition to that is residency/fellowship or the student not attending full time. I would imagine residency wouldn't apply to someone looking to go into chiropracty since they have their own 1000hrs/1yr of supervised clinical training to perform at that point.
Actually I was wrong. It takes 11 minimum with residency. I was including residency in that estimation. You can't get a full medical license until you are done with residency.

So you're trying to tell me that Chiropractors do 11 years of school to become a doctor, and then move on to Chiropractor school for another four? 15 years? Don't think so.


Quote:
"Requirements" vary across various years and across states, and the only people that stop educating themselves after the bare minimum education requirements are achieved anyway.....are in fact true quacks. Any serious medical practitioner - regardless of chosen field - spends a lot of time and effort on keeping up on the latest practices, developments, etc. long after they've finished their education and training. In fact, most states in the U.S. REQUIRE annually-continued education in order to maintain their practitioners license.
I would disagree that a chiropractor is a serious medical professional. But yes, all medical professionals can and should undergo ongoing education. But as a medical professional I also know that education can be a sham and that continuing education credits can easily be bought from online courses, or gotten from lectures and conferences rather easily. Sadly I know many people in my field who get those ongoing certs and still have no idea what they're doing. Probably worse if you're getting "chiropractic" continuing ed.


Quote:
The general concensus is that partial or complete "dislocation" (subluxations) of the spine can cause a lot of pain or even paralysis, but not disease.
Variations in the alignment of vertebrae in the spinal column, however, CAN cause SYMPTOMS of illness or disease, without them actually being present.
Yes this is anecdotal since these effects are very hard to study and reproduce, and the proper funding has not gone into this research yet.
Sure, dislocation of the spine can cause pain or paralysis. I know that and I haven't had any courses in chiropractic medicine. However that is not historically how chiropractors have viewed subluxations:

http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html

and really what can a chiropractor do to help your spine that a real Doctor couldn't?


Quote:
This is simply not true.
I started as a skeptic like yourself. I thought these people were glorified massage therapists. But as almost anyone who has studied psychology will tell you, strong skepticism does not foster placebo effects.
Actually I have a Master's Degree in Psychology and you are absolutely wrong on this point.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...ents-sham-drug

People still get a placebo effect even when they know they are taking a placebo.

Beyond that there are other reasons why someone who is highly skeptical might still experience benefit from placebo. Skepticism reduces the effect of placebo but it does not eliminate it. Especially in cases where people are desperate to have a treatment work because of chronic pain, even though they don't entirely believe it will.



Quote:
Then I guess it's a good thing I never claimed this. I say that many HAVE MD's, not that chiropractors ARE MD's.
Go ahead and ask every chiropractor that you know if they are a licensed medical doctor with an MD or a DO. I'd be interested in hearing the results. I would hazard to guess that the percentage is close to 0. Who is going to spend 11 - 18 years working on an MD or DO then give up a lucrative career to do another 4 years plus training hours to be a chiropractor and make less money? That would be insane.

Quote:
Seriously though, any formally trained and responsible practitioner will not.....
I'm not saying that there aren't chiropractors that don't do some good or help some people. Just that their whole basis for their style of "medicine" is deeply flawed and based on unfounded and unproven assertions. I'm sure that they think they are helping people and believe the stuff they are telling you and everyone else. Where's the hard data?

The neck thing does creep me out though. Ick.

Quote:
I don't really understand what your trauma on the issue of chiropractors is and why you would want to make them look like pikeys posing as spinal micro-surgeons, rather than simply state that it's not something that's not for you; but as someone who doesn't strike me as having as much education as a fully licensed chiropractor might, I find it bordering on hilarity that you would attempt to trivialize it.
Well you'd be wrong that I don't have as much education as a fully licensed chiropractor. four years for a bachelor's, two years for a master's degree, two years of training (our version of residency), plus another two years of advanced education in substance abuse.

I actually didn't initially care about all this, but you brought forth a mess of misinformation about the "profession" of Chiropracty, so I felt compelled to give my viewpoint.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #88100
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You guys are both going to extremes here, take it to PMs or GTFO, seriously.

Every chiropractor I have ever been to, only claims that having vertebrae out of alignment in a given area, or a pinched nerve, can cause pain to an appendage or tightness in the back/pain. An MD, phsyical therapist, and masseuse would all agree on this. A pinched nerve can indeed cause pain, and not always in the area where the nerve is.
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