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Old 08-22-2006, 07:54 AM   #1
Carrera26
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"Mama Sam" Challenge

Our biggest local event of the year. 3 regions competing (although it was really just Iowa and Des Moines Valley regions this year) for a trohpy. I think we (DMVR) took it this year, but we just have to wait and see.

We had a great turnout, and it was a very fast track. I had a hard time though, as it was real slippery in the morning, and then much grippier in the afternoon. As slippery as it was in the morning (dust and lots of weeds on the track…) I thought that my rear hit a patch of weeds a couple times, which is why I was having way too much oversteer. Found out in the afternoon that my normal PSIs (44F/35R), while great for getting rotation on our rather tight and technical courses, made the car oversteer wildly on the fast track. So my 3rd run made me look like a 16 year old in daddy’s mustang…people kept ribbing me about no knowing that I had converted to RWD. The lack of overall grip in the morning kinda disguised this, and the great grip in the afternoon completely exaggerated it. I was sideways 4 times in less than a minute on run 3!
Put in a decent run for my 4th, and final, run after I had pumped up the rears, but as I was unsure of the handling at this point I didn’t push it as much as I could. I really wanted to break into the 49s, but ended up with a 50.2 (with Brad in the car). If I could have nailed it, low 48s would have been in the cards without a doubt.
Oh well, a lesson to remember for the future. Also, it really cemented my opinion that there’s no reason to spend money on a rear sway-bar. With the right PSI setup (which won’t eat your tires either) you can set up the SVTF from steadfast understeerer to mini-D1 drifter.
SonicBlueSVT is definitely progressing, getting clearly faster at every event. With some experience under his belt, I think that he'll be a racer to contend with.
Once we kinda figured out where he should set his transmission, Phoenix had an awfully good run as well, and was really dropping time. Especially with an ATX, his times were excellent. That car certainly doesn't have a meek exhaust note to it either!

Here's my videos from the event. A little buzzy, forgot to turn on the "anti-shake" function on the camera, but it's not bad at all...
Please save to disk, it's 19megs.



Here's some pics, they are thumbnails, click to enlarge;

Here's Jeremiah (SonicBlueSVT) and his dad, along with some of the lineup...


My car and W~Phoenix~{RC}'s


Foci ready to kick some butt


2 of the fastest cars. That Camaro is LOUD. Actually had to reset the timing equipment once when it passed through. It knocked them out of alignment...


My favorite car in the whole state. Custom built locally by a guy who is famous across the country for his F Mod cars. That's a K20 in a 600-700 car with big fattie slicks. Notice how it's perfectly offset for his weight. It sounds gorgeous and goes like you wouldn't believe!


Here's a picture of a majority of the track. Big and fast!



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Old 08-22-2006, 08:04 AM   #2
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I hate you guys. We never have one that big here.
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:13 AM   #3
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Mmmmmm....concrete....I like concrete.
Nice showing of Foci too!

You have raced at that facility before? Looks familiar.
I guess what I'm getting at, is I'm looking at my rear tire pressures for concrete vs asphalt,
and see I've been consistently running 4psi higher on the concrete tracks.
I know the first time for me was just what you're describing, as in,
the rear end was extremely tail happy till I raised the pressures a bit.

Also, it really cemented my opinion that there’s no reason to spend money on a rear sway-bar.
With the right PSI setup (which won’t eat your tires either) you can set up the SVTF from steadfast understeerer to mini-D1 drifter.

Oh, I do agree, up to a point.
That point stops when you realize how much less weight is transferred off of the inside front tire,
and you realize you're able to get on the throttle much sooner than you could before you got the bar.
Course, for those wanting to stay in a stock class, you hit the nail on the head so to speak.

Have to watch the vid later...I'm off to class for the rest of the day.

And again, nice job by everyone!
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:31 AM   #4
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I think that on Concrete, especially on a nice warm day, you just get SO much stick out of the front tires at "Max Grip" PSI that it will completely overwhelm the rears unless they are set quite a bit higher than on your average asphalt lot.

My new ratio is;
Asphalt = 9 PSI difference
Concrete = 4 PSI difference
Of course, it all depends on how the track is setup as well. This one in particular had a lot of very fast sections ending in tight and technical turns.

I guess I will have to try and drive an otherwise stock (or as close as possible) SVTF on course to feel the difference. Not to mention I am so very used to thinking within SCCA rules that I usually consider mods paired with everything else allowable in class. As in I typically wouldn't think about the effect of a sway-bar alone, as it usually gets bundled with all the other allowable STS mods like coilovers and camber plates.

You know that at least 80% of the folks don't really understand their chassis dynamics enough to really understand and use that aspect. (not a smack talk on anyone here, but a real understanding of chassis dynamics isn't common anywhere outside of dedicated racers. And even there...) Most people equate;
Rear Sway = More Rotation / Cure Understeer
I just hate to see drivers who often haven't even been out on course or know how to induce rotation without it going out and spending a bunch of money to overcome an obstacle that could be better solved with experience and some understanding of tire pressures.
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carrera26
My new ratio is;
Asphalt = 9 PSI difference
Concrete = 4 PSI difference
Of course, it all depends on how the track is setup as well. This one in particular had a lot of very fast sections ending in tight and technical turns.
Amazing...that's dang close to where I'm at when I check my notes:
Asphalt = 43F / 35R
Concrete = 42F / 38R

Quote:
Originally posted by Carrera26
I just hate to see drivers who often haven't even been out on course or know how to induce rotation without it going out and spending a bunch of money
to overcome an obstacle that could be better solved with experience and some understanding of tire pressures.
...and keep preaching it brother.
I've seen it all too often.
Gobs of money spent, and barely a second or two gained on the track,
when a 4psi change in air pressure would have accomplished the same thing.
Let alone a little instruction, having some patience, and just getting lots of seat time would have accomplished the same thing.
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Old 08-22-2006, 05:30 PM   #6
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It was a great event. Really alot of fun. I managed to hit my first two cones at this event. One each on my third and fourth runs. My fourth run really wasn't how I wanted to end my day. It was my second slowest run. Four runs just never seems like enough. I really need to work on keeping my head up/ looking ahead. But I am getting a little better at it. OH, and I am sunburn free. woo hoo!
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Old 08-22-2006, 05:37 PM   #7
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Looks like fun was had by all!
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:03 PM   #8
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I'm glad to see that I’m not the only one that thinks a big rear sway is ‘not’ a must have for autocross. In just my third autocross ever and first in a FWD, I was running just 6 seconds behind national tour level drivers. This was on a 1 minute course in Milwaukee. They were all in 90’s Civic Si’s and I was in a 5 door SVTF with a passenger, spare tire and a full tank of gas. This was in STS running a stock tune. At that time, just the suspension work and battery relocation were completed.

I really need to get more seat time to close that 6 second gap.
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:10 PM   #9
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I dont know the first thing about racing but I do always enjoy your threads Carrera. Nice to see the pics and vids of the cars, gives a good insite as to what goes on. Thanks.
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:32 PM   #10
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Iowa AutoX

Hay, Any of you Iowa people ever get over to the Nebraska events?

I have only been to one event since I got my SVTF it was fun but frustrating.
I had AutoXed my 88 Fiero for a few years and switching from a mid engined rear drive care to the front engined front drive car is confusing me.

If any of you are going to a NE event let me know I would like to do a ride along with someone more experienced in the SVTF.

I may get to one of the DesMoines events one day.

Jon
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