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Old 02-19-2004, 01:47 PM   #1
FocusGlennFocus
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Question Best Oil Type and First Oil Change

Hey,

I have a new ZTS 2.3 PZEV with just 501 miles on it. So far, so good!

Wondering what thoughts the gang here might have on:

1) When you should do the first oil change?

2) What oil is best to use?

3) Oil Additives?

I have always been under the impression that you should effect the first oil change at around 500 miles right after break-in. The idea being that it helps get rid of any metal fragments that the oil filter missed from assembly and new engine wear. Also that synthetics are superior oils for wear. Red line (POE based) oil is the best and Mobil 1 is second, either in a 5w-30 weight for lower viscosity drag. Further that most if not all additives are not useful and may even be harmful by gunking up small oil passages (in the case of PTFE). In fact most additives will void the manufacturers warranty as far as I know.

Seems pretty straight forward; however, a mechanic pal of mine tells me the engine is not totally broken in until after about 1500 miles and using Red Line or Mobil 1 may slow down the break-in process and ultimately do more harm than good. Also, he tells me there is some sort of new additive based on Boric acid or something that would aid lubrication in the way that an automobile engine would need. He says, the other additives help if you run out of oil and you encounter etreme pressure and heat conditions (hence the ads showing cars being able to run without oil) but that is simply not the need or case in a well lubricated engine. The new additive has other properties that help with normal operating temps and pressures. Bottom line he says do not change the oil until 3,000 miles as recomended and then switch to a Synthetic, no additives.

Some pretty smart folks here and I am curious as to what your experiences and practices have been.

Anyone hear of a "Boric Acid" type additive for oil?

Thanks,

Glenn


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Old 02-19-2004, 02:12 PM   #2
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Don't know about the Boric acid based additive, but I'm runnning Mobil1 0W20, and I did my first at 1000, and the rest on the 5ks. But thats just me.
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Old 02-19-2004, 02:34 PM   #3
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I would not use any oil additives, the oil companies know what they are doing when they build the oil, also stay away from the full synthetics at first, with a motor like yours they probably will not hurt, but why not be cautious.. Lastly, many say wait till 5,000 on the first change, I'm with egz, why not do it sooner? what's the cost of some oil, I did mine at 700 then at 5,000 and every 4-5 after that.
Hey, good luck with the new car, nice choice!!
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Old 02-19-2004, 03:21 PM   #4
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the oil cap says something like 5-20 i think...are there any alternatives? or is the 5-20 the best choice. i ask this because (egz) runs 0-20. just wondering cus 5-20 is kinda a bootch to find at my local autoparts store.
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Old 02-19-2004, 03:37 PM   #5
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Egz is running Mobil 1 0w-20. It meets all of fords requirments for a 5w-20 oil. Many have speculated why they choose to run 5w-20. And many who live in hot climates, dont really trust it...so they switched to 5w-30. A 5w-30 synthetic is reall easy to find.


I am still running Motorcrat 5w-20, and I am on my second change at 7000 miles. I did my fisrt change a little late at 1,700 miles....the last change at 4,700, and the next one is going to be at 7,700. I plan to switch to either 0w-20, or 5w-30 Mobil 1 in my next change.


As for additives, all the additives you need are all ready placed in the motor oil.



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Old 02-19-2004, 04:58 PM   #6
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Re: Best Oil Type and First Oil Change

Quote:
Originally posted by FocusGlennFocus
...I have always been under the impression that you should effect the first oil change at around 500 miles right after break-in.
The manual says no official break-in is required, but you should vary speeds for the first 1000 miles.

Quote:
...The idea being that it helps get rid of any metal fragments that the oil filter missed from assembly and new engine wear.
Metal fragments are pretty much a thing of the past in modern engine assembly, and the filter can do down to a few microns so there is no such thing as particles it missed. Not particles of a size you need to worry about, that is.

Quote:
... Further that most if not all additives are not useful and may even be harmful by gunking up small oil passages (in the case of PTFE). In fact most additives will void the manufacturers warranty as far as I know.
Yup. No additives are needed.

Quote:
...Seems pretty straight forward; however, a mechanic pal of mine tells me the engine is not totally broken in until after about 1500 miles and using Red Line or Mobil 1 may slow down the break-in process and ultimately do more harm than good.
500, 1000, 1500... geez, pick your favorite number and go with it. Kinda splitting hairs here. I have also heard that synthetics may interfere with break-in; the specific complaint is that the rings don't seat properly because of the superior lubrication. In practice, this does not appear to be an issue in the case of Corvette, Mini, several BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche models which come from the factory with Mobil-1.

Quote:
... Also, he tells me there is some sort of new additive based on Boric acid or something
(Monty Python voice) Run away! Run away! YOU DO NOT NEED ANY ADDITIVES, PERIOD.

Quote:
... He says, the other additives help if you run out of oil and you encounter extreme pressure and heat conditions (hence the ads showing cars being able to run without oil) but that is simply not the need or case in a well lubricated engine.
The worst case for engine lubrication is right at the instant of startup, before oil pressure builds. You are running without oil for a very short period of time. Over 100,000+ miles it does add up.

Quote:
... Bottom line he says do not change the oil until 3,000 miles as recomended and then switch to a Synthetic, no additives.
"as recommended" by who? Ford says 5000 miles. Read your manual. I ran the factory fill right to 5K and changed to Mobil-1 at that point. I plan to stick with the 5K intervals. I put in 0W-30 because it was readily available; I could not find 0W-20 after trying about 8 different places. I would do the 0W-20 if I could find it.
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Old 02-20-2004, 02:40 AM   #7
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0W-20 Mobil 1 was available at my local Wal-Mart for approximately 4.50/qt. I don't think they re-stock quickly, none left on the shelf last time I checked! Other car items also, same situation.
I may have to try my OTHER local Wal-Mart next time!

Did my first oil change at 3K for free at the dealer. Used the short interval due to the dry, dusty conditions here in late summer. Second change done @ 6666 miles with Mobil1 0w-20 myself. I plan on doing the next at 10k and then following 5k intervals until it gets dusty again.
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:18 PM   #8
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TY for the replies!

I'll wait til 1,500 mile to change oil. Red Line or Mobil 1.

Filter??? What Filter???

Another can of worms...

Oh, BTW, found the site touting the Boric Acid oil additive.

http://www.motorbond.com/

Lots of fancy research etc., but it's almsot all aimed at Boric Acid as a lubricant for metal forming. Very different than engine lubricating. However, Volvo has been testing it supposedly on their engines. One BIG red flag is that they list a patent given out. Now that may seem great, except when you go to the U.S. Gov Patent Office web site it comes up as no information found. So, I wrote the Fed's and MotorBond and asked a few questions. I'll let you all know what they both have to say.

-Glenn
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Old 02-23-2004, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by FocusGlennFocus

Oh, BTW, found the site touting the Boric Acid oil additive.

http://www.motorbond.com/

Lots of fancy research etc., but it's almsot all aimed at Boric Acid as a lubricant for metal forming. Very different than engine lubricating. However, Volvo has been testing it supposedly on their engines. One BIG red flag is that they list a patent given out. Now that may seem great, except when you go to the U.S. Gov Patent Office web site it comes up as no information found.
Glenn - interesting site. Lots of links, although if you follow a few of them, you start to realize they are mostly repetitions of the same basic info attributed to Argonne National Labs.

One of the red flags, for me, is the information suggesting the boric acid coating is water-soluble in the metal-forming applications; thus reclaimable, evironmentally friendly, yada yada. In fact is sounds like a great development for the metalworking industry. I could not agree with you more when you state "very different than engine lubricating".

I would preach a very conservative, wait-and-see attitude. What's wrong with conventional oils (petroleum, synthetic, blends)? Are engines wearing out prematurely? I don't really think so. So what would be the benefit of this boric acid lube?

Incidentally, I had no problem pulling up US Patent 5,431,830. Go here:

www.uspto.gov

And under "Patents" hit "search". Then hit "Patent Number Search" and type 5431830. It came right up for me. You can see the text of the patent, but in order to get the actual images, you need a special .TIFF viewer (which I have; in my line of work I am looking at patents a couple times a month at least).

Remember, just because it's patented doesn't mean it actually works.
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Old 02-23-2004, 03:17 PM   #10
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For some reason the USPO site did not locate patent #5431830. Not sure why. However, the company wrote me back with a link that works:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...AND&d=ptxt&s1='boric+acid'.TTL.&OS=TTL/"boric+acid"&RS=TTL/"boric+acid"

I guess it's for real, but you are very correct I think in stating that because it has a patent deos not mean it works. Also, I would think the oil companies would jump on such a product. Time will tell.

Thanks,

Glenn
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