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View Poll Results: Good Idea??
Yes 2 33.33%
No 3 50.00%
Yes, but i must add something to this 1 16.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-15-2005, 03:56 PM   #11
jboylan
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There were even prototype rear-steer corvettes and camaros produced on the 80s. Before it came out, there was talk of the viper being rear steer.
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Old 11-15-2005, 03:59 PM   #12
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There are 2 major problems with this.

A. This system must be very precise, tough, cheap, and relatively light. Nobody has combined all those things.

B. Consistency
1. Especially in high speed/suspension stress situations, you have many variables to contend with. Suspension squirm (bushings, mounts, etc) that vary from year to year and road to road, grip levels, road conditions (bumpy, wet, snow, etc), so on and so forth. To get a system to preform consistently in the same way in almost all conditions is very very hard. You certainly don't want your rear toe to change mid corner when you hit a damp patch, bump, or when your tires get hot and start to lose grip.
2. Although the rear toe isn't changing on a car, especially in high-performance or racing driving, it's easier and better to adjust your driving style to the condition rather than introduce a new and possibly inconsistant variable.

C. Say you do all these things. Is it going to fit on the car and be cost-effective? If it worked great, but cost $7,000 to put on a Focus, I don't think you'd have many takers.

It may come someday, but like active suspensions on high-end cars today, it's got to fit the application on use and price.
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Old 11-15-2005, 07:46 PM   #13
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A kid I went to college with had a built up 300z for a few years, and that PRS scared the crap out of me a couple times. Especially under hard acceleration through a turn. I guess he was accustomed to it, but I couldn't stand it.
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Old 11-15-2005, 07:51 PM   #14
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The focus already has PRS, I think theres a metal piece that flexes as the body rolls not quite sure exactly. But you could effectively replace it with a stiffer piece or even a looser piece depending on the application. I think a "little" PRS is a good thing as your allowing the rear to rotate without scrubbing off speed by draging the rear around the corner as you rotate and that the rear tires are in more grip since they are tracking not dragging around the corner. Also id think if you were to tighten up the suspension then increase the effect of the PRS (not by a lot by any means). you can have a car that points in to the corner with a sweet slip angle but toes back in quick when you want it to causeyour stiffer suspension (not over dampened) alows you to transition back twords center quick. I dunno I think this would rock on a smooth track but on bumpy pavement I could see how this could make it a lil unpredictable.

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] edit**
I used to think my rear end was on the verge of snapping out on me in the Focus but really its the PRS and its wasnt much but since i was used to my prior 96 toyota camry le it was the same feeling as when the rear was stepping out on me in the camry except it didnt step out like it would have in the camry. it kinda tappered off to a point and held but now that im used to it Id like a lil more with a lil stiffer suspension to point the nose a lil more inside the turn. I f there was a way to make it adjustable that would be awsome.

P.S. - Sorry for the double post it didnt let me delete.

Last edited by S1lkwrm; 11-15-2005 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:49 AM   #15
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There is a simple, cheap, and effective way. In fact there are several. Just changing the static toe, rear-sway, damper settings, camber, etc. will all adjust that. Not only can you fine-tune the attitude of the car, but it's consistent and predictable, instead of trying to tune a dynamic system like PRS. As I said, it's a lot easier and effective to make a change that is consistent and then adapt your driving to suit it...

The piece of metal you are talking about is the "Control Blade", btw.
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Old 11-16-2005, 03:10 PM   #16
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All i know is I'm happy how mine is on the track as it is.
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carrera26
There is a simple, cheap, and effective way. In fact there are several. Just changing the static toe, rear-sway, damper settings, camber, etc. will all adjust that. Not only can you fine-tune the attitude of the car, but it's consistent and predictable, instead of trying to tune a dynamic system like PRS. As I said, it's a lot easier and effective to make a change that is consistent and then adapt your driving to suit it...

The piece of metal you are talking about is the "Control Blade", btw.
Im learning here so bare with me..

If I were to adjust the static toe(out) evenly on both sides wont that cause one wheel to track and the other (inside) wheel to go against it thats the only thing that bugs me about a static toe change. well except toe in to make more stability in braking. Hmm actually as Im typing this i just hought about what you said its basicly going to cause the out side wheel to toe out more but the inside will toe in to track as well but just not as much as the rear since the static change was made. ok my brain hurts now.
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:16 PM   #18
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As one side compresses, with the Control Blade, it toes out just a bit, I believe. If you are compressing one side, then you are taking weight off the other, which would have the opposite effect, which would be toe-in. This would get both of them pointing in the same direction, which helps quell understeer. (Don't know a ton about Control Blade, anyone with facts that contradict please post)

Your looking at this process a little later than you need to. By that I mean that it's what the tires are doing before it compresses that makes the most difference. There's a split-second lag between the initiation of the turn and when the car settles to it's max roll level. Static toe-out (I actually reccomend 0 toe in the rear, stock they have toe-in) will be what controls the process at initiation, which really has a lot more effect.

Especially in quick transitions, like in a slalom, the car will only lean a bit in one direction before you have it headed back the other way. The fast line is the one that for the most part has the least actual cornering Gs possible, as in it's the straightest and most flowing line. There are very few situations on the street, road course, or especially the AutoX course when you are going to be sitting their at max roll, at least if you are doing it right. Unless I am in a "carousel", which is a situation for me to induce rear slip and rotation by weight transfer or steering input anyway, not to sit there through a static G load.

So in every situation outside of long and constant radius sweepers, when you are driving right, you're not going to use much dynamic toe change anyway.
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Last edited by Carrera26; 11-18-2005 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:36 AM   #19
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wow.

you guys just made me realize how little i actually know about car mechanics.


second off.

prs??
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:07 AM   #20
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passive rear steering. A suspension system that actually turns the rear wheels due to changes in suspension geometry (like compression).

ars = active rear steering. A suspension system that turns the rear wheels by active computer or mechanical control.
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