I think I got worked! - Page 2 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Discussions > Ford Focus Purchasing Center (Ask A Ford Salesperson)

Ford Focus Purchasing Center (Ask A Ford Salesperson) Discuss about special incentives and ordering information on the Focus & Focus ST.
Sponsored By: Phil Long Ford - Colorado's #1 Ford Dealer


Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2014, 03:52 PM   #11
lobo411
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 148290
Location: garb, United States
What I Drive: 2014 SE

Posts: 10
FF Reputation: 1 lobo411 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Can't guess on a "fair price without rebates" too well because you never stated the actual "MSRP" or "Sticker" price. All your figuring was his offer vs. yours, with an unreported total including taxes & fees.

Rebates affect the deal price as well, because part of that comes out of the Dealer's cut so the Dealer discount will be less depending on the rebate deal.

Salesman agreed to your price contingent on your buying the ESP, since they make a good profit on that. Tried to hide that in the back & forth, I'm sure that was the reality. You never noticed the higher price without the ESP purchase after refusing ESP.

Lot of Flim-Flam negotiation was going on. I see the negotiation based on monthly payment I warned about was even involved from the additional detail you've given.

Getting the best price requires homework & figuring before starting to deal, and usually at least two visits to the Dealership for negotiations - more if what you want isn't on the lot.

Too many negotiations on multiple deals to easily keep straight in one session, and that's to the Dealer's advantage since they go through it many times each day. How often does anyone go through it personally?

You're dealing on the basic price first, then options they want to sell, and financing on top of that! Combining that into one session, changing options/financing to mix up the numbers, by the time it's done you're lost as to what you bought & what the final price was. As others mentioned, that's when to take a break to figure out where you really stand.

Luck
Ya, the salesman was definitely focused on the monthly payment and I probably seemed like an easy mark because I didn't care what the payment was. Of course I didn't tell them my plan, but I'm refinancing the loan via the Bank of Mom (ie 0% "pay what you can when you can" loan from the parents). I assume a payment book is coming at some point, and at that point I'll write a big fat $13k check.

What you say about the ESP and repricing makes complete sense. They printed one contract w/ the ESP, then I noticed the pricing ($2k) and asked for it to be removed, then there was a bit more salesmanship to try to get me into the ESP (for you...just $1600!) but I refused, and they printed another contract without it. I was so focused on the ESP that I let my guard down after they dropped it.

I totally agree about the "runaround" part of this. There's no way they're that dumb! The salesman apologized for the "misunderstanding," so that was his opportunity to fix the price or tell me that the deal we negotiated was no longer valid. I'll raise that argument if they say "Ohhh...well we meant $16.5k if you took the ESP."

Well, this has been a great education for me. Whether I'm made whole or not, I didn't pay a shocking amount in "tuition," and next time I'll follow people's advice. In addition, it would have helped me a lot if I had brought a pen and a pad of my own. I could have written down the details as I understood them, had the salesman look that over to be sure he agreed, and then kept that paper so I wouldn't have any doubt later on. Hopefully, not something I'll have to do again for 10 years, though!

Here's the complete pricing info, in case anyone finds it useful:

Window sticker (not for mine, but for another they had w/ the same exact configuration in white instead of charcoal):

http://imgur.com/XZSSYTl

Prices from the contract:
Cash price: $19915
Doc: $80
Alarm: $495 (I was a dummy and didn't ask about this, but imo I own that)
Sales tax: $1639.20
Transfer charge: $29
Total Cash Price: $22158.20

License Fee: $133
Registration: $102
CA tire fee: $8.75
Total Gov't Fees: $243.75

Subtotal: $22401.95
Rebate: $3000
Down payment: $6000 (I didn't care what the down was either, since I mean to pay the full amount as soon as I get a bill)
Loan: $13401.95
lobo411 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-16-2014, 05:26 PM   #12
sailor
"Elder"
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 12,327
FF Reputation: 63 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Ah Well, pen & paper is a good idea for another time.

Make sure to get the documentation on whatever Alarm system they added, that can be critical if there are any problems with that sometime in the future.

Luck
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
sailor is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:09 PM   #13
lobo411
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 148290
Location: garb, United States
What I Drive: 2014 SE

Posts: 10
FF Reputation: 1 lobo411 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Back from the dealership. The salesman got his manager and the three of us discussed it, but the manager did all the talking. Long story short, he stood on the contract, claimed I was lucky to negotiate them down to MSRP, claimed that they had done me a solid by giving me the MySync rebate that's currently offered as a standard rebate right now, and claimed that they had given me a special deal by giving me the alarm at only $495.

When I said I couldn't possibly consider myself satisfied considering the way they had handled the deal and my survey would reflect that, he bristled "so you're going to hold us hostage?" I said no. I know a contract's a contract, and I'll pay what I owe. But that legal fact is not going to stop me from being honest about my experience. That's when he offered me the 3 free oil changes, and when I said no, he asked what I wanted. I started with a free car cover which only costs $199, and he laughed. That's when I folded up my papers, and said thanks...I'd take it up with corporate.

I went in there open to the possibility that an honest difference of opinion had occurred between me and the salesman. I left convinced that they're absolutely crooked. What did it for me wasn't the fact that they disagreed with my position. What did it was when they tried claiming that a standard rebate (mysync) was actually a special deal, and that their standard add on (alarm) was something they gave me at a bargain basement rate. Aside from sounding perfectly ridiculous, they would have said "hey here's some fantastic stuff we're giving you" at the time of sale to make me feel good about the transaction.

My next step will be to fill out their survey honestly and fairly, which means unsatisfactory. I figure 0's across the board is both unfair and will be discarded by Ford's statisticians. 2's and 3's are actually more damaging on a survey, because while a 0 looks like someone who is really pissed and will never be back no matter what, a 2 or 3 looks like someone who was "gettable" but driven away by poor customer service.
lobo411 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:32 PM   #14
rebelx
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Fan#: 120081
Location: NorCal, CA
What I Drive: 1997 Ford Escort

Posts: 194
FF Reputation: 1 rebelx Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobo411 View Post
Back from the dealership. The salesman got his manager and the three of us discussed it, but the manager did all the talking. Long story short, he stood on the contract, claimed I was lucky to negotiate them down to MSRP, claimed that they had done me a solid by giving me the MySync rebate that's currently offered as a standard rebate right now, and claimed that they had given me a special deal by giving me the alarm at only $495.

When I said I couldn't possibly consider myself satisfied considering the way they had handled the deal and my survey would reflect that, he bristled "so you're going to hold us hostage?" I said no. I know a contract's a contract, and I'll pay what I owe. But that legal fact is not going to stop me from being honest about my experience. That's when he offered me the 3 free oil changes, and when I said no, he asked what I wanted. I started with a free car cover which only costs $199, and he laughed. That's when I folded up my papers, and said thanks...I'd take it up with corporate.

I went in there open to the possibility that an honest difference of opinion had occurred between me and the salesman. I left convinced that they're absolutely crooked. What did it for me wasn't the fact that they disagreed with my position. What did it was when they tried claiming that a standard rebate (mysync) was actually a special deal, and that their standard add on (alarm) was something they gave me at a bargain basement rate. Aside from sounding perfectly ridiculous, they would have said "hey here's some fantastic stuff we're giving you" at the time of sale to make me feel good about the transaction.

My next step will be to fill out their survey honestly and fairly, which means unsatisfactory. I figure 0's across the board is both unfair and will be discarded by Ford's statisticians. 2's and 3's are actually more damaging on a survey, because while a 0 looks like someone who is really pissed and will never be back no matter what, a 2 or 3 looks like someone who was "gettable" but driven away by poor customer service.
Oh man, I was hoping there'd be a happy resolution to your story. Hopefully getting in touch with corporate and a negative review sets them straight. :/

Hopefully you can take your elsewhere for servicing and the like. No reason to trust them with your vehicle's maintenance or business anymore.
rebelx is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:35 PM   #15
Salesguy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 147626
Location: Jefferson City, MO
What I Drive: 2013 Sterling Grey Ti Hatch

Posts: 237
FF Reputation: 4 Salesguy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobo411 View Post
Back from the dealership. The salesman got his manager and the three of us discussed it, but the manager did all the talking. Long story short, he stood on the contract, claimed I was lucky to negotiate them down to MSRP, claimed that they had done me a solid by giving me the MySync rebate that's currently offered as a standard rebate right now, and claimed that they had given me a special deal by giving me the alarm at only $495.

When I said I couldn't possibly consider myself satisfied considering the way they had handled the deal and my survey would reflect that, he bristled "so you're going to hold us hostage?" I said no. I know a contract's a contract, and I'll pay what I owe. But that legal fact is not going to stop me from being honest about my experience. That's when he offered me the 3 free oil changes, and when I said no, he asked what I wanted. I started with a free car cover which only costs $199, and he laughed. That's when I folded up my papers, and said thanks...I'd take it up with corporate.

I went in there open to the possibility that an honest difference of opinion had occurred between me and the salesman. I left convinced that they're absolutely crooked. What did it for me wasn't the fact that they disagreed with my position. What did it was when they tried claiming that a standard rebate (mysync) was actually a special deal, and that their standard add on (alarm) was something they gave me at a bargain basement rate. Aside from sounding perfectly ridiculous, they would have said "hey here's some fantastic stuff we're giving you" at the time of sale to make me feel good about the transaction.

My next step will be to fill out their survey honestly and fairly, which means unsatisfactory. I figure 0's across the board is both unfair and will be discarded by Ford's statisticians. 2's and 3's are actually more damaging on a survey, because while a 0 looks like someone who is really pissed and will never be back no matter what, a 2 or 3 looks like someone who was "gettable" but driven away by poor customer service.

Im sorry to hear your deal went down like that. I can assure you this is not how all, or even most dealers operate. Typically they will want to do anything within reason to make any slight, perceived or real, right with the customer.

So you ended up paying the MSRP? That's not totally uncommon but it is not normal to have to negotiate down to it. And I promise you, they made money on an alarm at $495.

Normally I wouldn't recommend this, but just so you know, you can walk into that finance office, and cancel any products.. warranty, gap, etc, and you will get a prorated portion back to your lien holder that can go against your principal amount owed. If you feel like you need these products, you can walk into a different dealer, whom you trust, and buy them from them.
__________________
13 SGM Ti Hatch - Slow but pretty.
Salesguy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:39 PM   #16
rebelx
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Fan#: 120081
Location: NorCal, CA
What I Drive: 1997 Ford Escort

Posts: 194
FF Reputation: 1 rebelx Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salesguy View Post
Im sorry to hear your deal went down like that. I can assure you this is not how all, or even most dealers operate. Typically they will want to do anything within reason to make any slight, perceived or real, right with the customer.

So you ended up paying the MSRP? That's not totally uncommon but it is not normal to have to negotiate down to it. And I promise you, they made money on an alarm at $495.

Normally I wouldn't recommend this, but just so you know, you can walk into that finance office, and cancel any products.. warranty, gap, etc, and you will get a prorated portion back to your lien holder that can go against your principal amount owed. If you feel like you need these products, you can walk into a different dealer, whom you trust, and buy them from them.
Maybe he should buy the warranty and stuff from you! :P
rebelx is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:46 PM   #17
Salesguy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 147626
Location: Jefferson City, MO
What I Drive: 2013 Sterling Grey Ti Hatch

Posts: 237
FF Reputation: 4 Salesguy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelx View Post
Maybe he should buy the warranty and stuff from you! :P
If hes in my area sure, he can come in and get it handled :P
__________________
13 SGM Ti Hatch - Slow but pretty.
Salesguy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 10:09 PM   #18
lobo411
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 148290
Location: garb, United States
What I Drive: 2014 SE

Posts: 10
FF Reputation: 1 lobo411 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salesguy View Post
Im sorry to hear your deal went down like that. I can assure you this is not how all, or even most dealers operate. Typically they will want to do anything within reason to make any slight, perceived or real, right with the customer.

So you ended up paying the MSRP? That's not totally uncommon but it is not normal to have to negotiate down to it. And I promise you, they made money on an alarm at $495.

Normally I wouldn't recommend this, but just so you know, you can walk into that finance office, and cancel any products.. warranty, gap, etc, and you will get a prorated portion back to your lien holder that can go against your principal amount owed. If you feel like you need these products, you can walk into a different dealer, whom you trust, and buy them from them.
Yep, I paid the MSRP . Frankly, my Dad warned me not to buy things from this dealer because he was always the most expensive game around, but I thought $19500 was a fair price without going to other dealers. Stupid me!

Hmm...I can't find any provision that lets me cancel the alarm in the contract or elsewhere. Is this part of the Ford dealership agreement? Honestly, I'd LOVE to be able to walk in there and cancel that alarm. How sweet would it be to know that they kept their ill-gotten $415, but it cost them a $495 car alarm sale AND a negative survey to boot! But I'm gun shy now and it'd buck me up to know where the authority comes from. I can't find anything in the contract or in the California Car Buyer's bill of rights that says I can get a refund on optional add-ons, but are they required to refund this?

Thanks!
lobo411 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 10:15 PM   #19
lobo411
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 148290
Location: garb, United States
What I Drive: 2014 SE

Posts: 10
FF Reputation: 1 lobo411 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelx View Post
Oh man, I was hoping there'd be a happy resolution to your story. Hopefully getting in touch with corporate and a negative review sets them straight. :/

Hopefully you can take your elsewhere for servicing and the like. No reason to trust them with your vehicle's maintenance or business anymore.
Thanks! Definitely not taking the car back there. Again, this all goes to a "lesson learned" moment. There are 2 other ford dealers less than 15 mins away by freeway. I could have easily shopped 2 other dealers and played them off, but Mr. Dummy had to marry the first girl he slept with!

Ironically, the dealership sent me an email tonight asking for feedback. I think it was another automatic pre-survey survey, because it specifically came from the dealer and said another survey would be arriving in 2 weeks. We'll see...I'm leaving for DC tomorrow night, so that might be a good thing. A little cooling off might do both them and I some good. I can write my letter to corporate and have a few days to revise it, and they can think about how expensive that $415 in ill-gotten profit could turn out to be, if only in headaches!
lobo411 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 10:19 PM   #20
Salesguy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Fan#: 147626
Location: Jefferson City, MO
What I Drive: 2013 Sterling Grey Ti Hatch

Posts: 237
FF Reputation: 4 Salesguy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobo411 View Post
Yep, I paid the MSRP . Frankly, my Dad warned me not to buy things from this dealer because he was always the most expensive game around, but I thought $19500 was a fair price without going to other dealers. Stupid me!

Hmm...I can't find any provision that lets me cancel the alarm in the contract or elsewhere. Is this part of the Ford dealership agreement? Honestly, I'd LOVE to be able to walk in there and cancel that alarm. How sweet would it be to know that they kept their ill-gotten $415, but it cost them a $495 car alarm sale AND a negative survey to boot! But I'm gun shy now and it'd buck me up to know where the authority comes from. I can't find anything in the contract or in the California Car Buyer's bill of rights that says I can get a refund on optional add-ons, but are they required to refund this?

Thanks!
Your likely SOL on the alarm.

Only the ESP/service contract, gap coverage, life insurance, and other finance addons can be canceled, and you WILL lose some bucks on them, you will receive a pro-rated portion back, based on age/mileage and usually a small fee.. 50 bucks or so depending on the product.

For example, say you bought an ESP for 2000, well, you may have used say 5% of the miles on that ESP, so you will get your 2 grand back, minus the 5% pro rate, minus the cancellation fee (again, usually small). Now, if you have a lien holder, the check will go directly to them, if not, it goes to your pocket.

I mention this because I thought somewhere you said they 'included' a service contract. You might want to go over your paperwork and see what else they included, since there is no such thing as a free service contract.
__________________
13 SGM Ti Hatch - Slow but pretty.
Salesguy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.