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Old 02-17-2014, 07:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
First hand experience.
Regrettably, your conclusion doesn't hold up if you look beyond your survey sample size of . . . one. There have been no great improvements to the DCT. The fact that any 2014s are having mechanical problems like leaking seals tell me as much. They may have smoothed some rough edges in the software, but it amounts to lipstick on a pig. Improving the software will "fix" the DCT only so long as it isn't actually broken to begin with. At best, it masks the symptoms of the disease (to use medical analogy).
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:53 AM   #32
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http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/r....org%2F8287%2F

Did you happen to read this, gostinger?

From what I've seen reported, someone decided to use the clutch "shudder" as an initial warning rather than a warning light first. This was probably to make it act more "normal" for what it is, and avoid an extra warning light that tends to upset people without reinforcing the desired behavior.

My first post mentions my opinion of the lack of transparency as to the "normal" operation of this transmission type, no need to repeat that!
Trust me I have been around this block several times and after 2 replacements and onto a third in my former 2012 shitbox DCT I know more about this transmission ,it's behavior , characteristics and all the technical aspects . I have read so much literature and bs , how do you think I won my case and got my 2013 mtx. If they admit they have someone actually concentrating on that particular problem , pretty sure it's safe to say there must be a problem. Trust me after hearing from people at multiple dealers the same comments in regards to these trannys "Oh not another one", "Yes we have seen many"
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by gostinger View Post
Trust me I have been around this block several times and after 2 replacements and onto a third in my former 2012 shitbox DCT I know more about this transmission ,it's behavior , characteristics and all the technical aspects . I have read so much literature and bs , how do you think I won my case and got my 2013 mtx. If they admit they have someone actually concentrating on that particular problem , pretty sure it's safe to say there must be a problem. Trust me after hearing from people at multiple dealers the same comments in regards to these trannys "Oh not another one", "Yes we have seen many"

OK. I have no first hand experience with the cars. I am however very curious and always wanting to learn more. The only way that is done is through people posting facts of their experiences.
Now me being curious, I looked back through many of your posts (not all) and I can't find anything where you mention any facts about your experiences.
So I'm still left curious.

That leads me to this,
Either post facts and become part of the conversation, or I will keep you out of it.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:32 PM   #34
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Hopeless cases ..... buy the DCT enjoy .
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #35
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post
Regrettably, your conclusion doesn't hold up if you look beyond your survey sample size of . . . one. There have been no great improvements to the DCT. The fact that any 2014s are having mechanical problems like leaking seals tell me as much. They may have smoothed some rough edges in the software, but it amounts to lipstick on a pig. Improving the software will "fix" the DCT only so long as it isn't actually broken to begin with. At best, it masks the symptoms of the disease (to use medical analogy).
After reading a number of posts from 2014 owners and many "non-2014" owners that have no issues, I am not getting the impression at all that Ford has done little or nothing to address the DCT issues.

Regarding the firmware, there is a night and day difference between what my car has now and what it came with from the factory.

If you think about it, this is not rocket science. Mechanically, it's simply a dry clutch with a motor for an actuator (instead of a clutch pedal and your foot).
Why shouldn't it work well on a consistent basis? I think it's better to consider why so many people are happy with their DCT and why some do have issues, rather than just dismissing the DCT as junk and Ford as a bunch of inept morons.

Is there a manufacturing problem with the clutches? Are actuator motors going bad? Are dealers in some cases not doing the repair properly? Are there still firmware issues? Are there issues with the engine that may cause one to believe that there is a problem with the DCT? I think it's better to have a good understanding of this subject rather than just remaining ignorant.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
After reading a number of posts from 2014 owners and many "non-2014" owners that have no issues, I am not getting the impression at all that Ford has done little or nothing to address the DCT issues.

Regarding the firmware, there is a night and day difference between what my car has now and what it came with from the factory.

If you think about it, this is not rocket science. Mechanically, it's simply a dry clutch with a motor for an actuator (instead of a clutch pedal and your foot).
Why shouldn't it work well on a consistent basis? I think it's better to consider why so many people are happy with their DCT and why some do have issues, rather than just dismissing the DCT as junk and Ford as a bunch of inept morons.

Is there a manufacturing problem with the clutches? Are actuator motors going bad? Are dealers in some cases not doing the repair properly? Are there still firmware issues? Are there issues with the engine that may cause one to believe that there is a problem with the DCT? I think it's better to have a good understanding of this subject rather than just remaining ignorant.
I agree it shouldn't be rocket science and agree Ford has made progress. And Ford may have an idea of why some work well and others don't.

Here's what I find puzzling at best and unforgiveable at worst:

1) The DCT was released as a grossly underdeveloped product. Auto magazines panned the thing immediately and complaints from new owners came in awfully quickly. Either Ford's testing process was grossly deficient or they became prisoners of the calendar and knowingly released a deficient product.

2) The process of fixing the problem has been incredibly long, fractured and not very owner-friendly. We're on, what, the 4th, 5th or 6th software version now? These solutions were seemingly another product of a flawed testing process or maybe desperation to get something, anything, out. And of course we're on clutch version "D", implying "A" didn't work, so let's try "B" which didn't work and begat "C" which didn't work either. So maybe a spirited but ultimately discombobulated process.

And of course, there were the Ford memos and dealer instructions excusing much bad behavior and seemingly incenting dealers to do nothing, except maybe charging owners for software updates that were clearly coverd by warranty.

Finally, after nearly 2 years of production Ford's head of global product development is involved and maybe (?) real progress is made in hardware and software, dealers are allowed to replace clutches, etc.

If the 2014s are great, I'm happy for new owners. But a portion of the 2012 and 2013 owner group isn't so fortunate, still dealing with troublesome gearboxes and having invested way too much time and energy making our cases to service managers and waiting for our cars to be "fixed".

So, I really don't care what the underlying causes of the problems were or are. But Ford has messed this up royally, failing on development, quality control, problem resolution and owner relations. There aren't a lot of other categories.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:05 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
I agree it shouldn't be rocket science and agree Ford has made progress. And Ford may have an idea of why some work well and others don't.

Here's what I find puzzling at best and unforgiveable at worst:

1) The DCT was released as a grossly underdeveloped product. Auto magazines panned the thing immediately and complaints from new owners came in awfully quickly. Either Ford's testing process was grossly deficient or they became prisoners of the calendar and knowingly released a deficient product.

2) The process of fixing the problem has been incredibly long, fractured and not very owner-friendly. We're on, what, the 4th, 5th or 6th software version now? These solutions were seemingly another product of a flawed testing process or maybe desperation to get something, anything, out. And of course we're on clutch version "D", implying "A" didn't work, so let's try "B" which didn't work and begat "C" which didn't work either. So maybe a spirited but ultimately discombobulated process.

And of course, there were the Ford memos and dealer instructions excusing much bad behavior and seemingly incenting dealers to do nothing, except maybe charging owners for software updates that were clearly coverd by warranty.

Finally, after nearly 2 years of production Ford's head of global product development is involved and maybe (?) real progress is made in hardware and software, dealers are allowed to replace clutches, etc.

If the 2014s are great, I'm happy for new owners. But a portion of the 2012 and 2013 owner group isn't so fortunate, still dealing with troublesome gearboxes and having invested way too much time and energy making our cases to service managers and waiting for our cars to be "fixed".

So, I really don't care what the underlying causes of the problems were or are. But Ford has messed this up royally, failing on development, quality control, problem resolution and owner relations. There aren't a lot of other categories.
I agree that Ford released a half-baked transmission. I definitely experienced the shuddering, clunks, etc.
I'm sure that Ford knew that the DCT was not exactly ready for prime time. Undoubtedly they found themselves between a rock and a hard place.
I could only imagine what some 2011 Fiesta owners had to put up with.

The importance of knowing the underlying causes has to do with service and being able to judge what is or isn't reasonable to expect (or demand) from the local dealer service department. Ideally, one could simply drop their car off and the dealer would take care of it. Unfortunately, there is a gray area as to what is or isn't acceptable behavior and some dealer service departments are clearly better than others in this regard.
Also, as an example, several people have reported that occasional "spirited driving" (WOT acceleration) will minimize or eliminate the shudder problem. I babied my car for the first few hundred miles and I noticed that the DCT definitely worked much better when I stopped babying it. Could it be that some who aren't happy with their DCT could "fix" it by simply putting their foot to the floor every so often? This certainly isn't going to work for everybody but the point is that at least it's good to know because something this simple could make the difference between a satisfied owner and an unhappy owner.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:52 AM   #39
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i have read all these posts. here is what I have experienced. (and my thoughts)
1) i have had no major problems. Simple grinds and whines and shutter. Nothing major.
2) my ford dealer is shit. They gave me a good deal, but raped me in service. They blew all my computers in the car while fixing the damn fog lights. Dafuq?
3) my focus is great and fine to drive. i could've shopped around but i jumped the gun and i don't regret it.
4) i have heard many horror stories about cars shuttering so bad that they spill drinks in the cupholder and rattle peoples teeth. That needs to be fixed. A little shuttering isnt a problem as long as it truely is normal operation.
I completely agree with whynotthinkwhynot about the coasting thing. In a manual, in gear, the car slows as the accelerator is not pressed. People who havent drove manuals will find this as a defect.
5) ford wont fix anything, as in if they get a perfect dct with no problems, they will not replace the x amount of dcts out there with problems.
6) if you have a notion that your car isnt "normal" take it to anothet dealer. Hell i contacted ford directly and ford contacted my dealer and i had a checkup appointment the very next day. Now whether or not your or another dealer wants to fool with you is a different story....
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:59 AM   #40
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Something to add, i have noticed the wot approach to be effective. Sometimes my car slows while on the gas
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