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Old 02-13-2014, 10:40 PM   #31
SlickWilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
It's the same argument I made...Two tubes with somewhat different maximum flow capacities, both of which are can easily flow far more than the needs of the given circumstances. It's actually much more applicable than the 'breathing through a straw' examples typically used for to illustrate the effect at WOT.





The air temperature argument for CAI's is not nearly as valid as it was years ago, since most modern cars already draw into the airbox from a "cold air" location, in addition to modern engine bays often being so tight that the CAI cone filter ends up in essentially the same position as the stock airbox anyways. However the inlet to the airbox can frequently be even more ideally positioned than a CAI, since it don't have to fit the whole filter wherever the air is being drawn from. Do you really think that when spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing new engines to meet ever tighter fuel economy and emissions requirements, they would leave such an easy (internet claimed) 5% fuel economy increase on the table? Not a chance. Most WOT power gains typically come from the less restrictive (less effective) filter and the smoothed/enlarged intake tract...Which explains how SRI's can also still show gains over the stock intake at WOT too. Even at max engine flow, a CAI typically nets <5% air flow increase at WOT...Let alone how drastically reduced the effects become at lower throttle openings. The more close the throttle plate is, less everything before the throttle body matters due to the pressure drop across the throttle plate. Reducing that pressure drop across the throttle plate also happens to be why you can actually improve fuel economy by using larger throttle openings at lower rpm to make the same effective power as smaller throttle openings at higher rpm.
WOO! Someone who knows their info!
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by crice8 View Post
Around about 41-42mpg on the highway at 74mph. You?

That was 222 Miles there and back then 5.378 gallons to top back off. We are going on a trip this weekend 309 miles each way. I will track my mileage over that trip. I expect lesser mpgs since we are going from TX to Arkansas and the increase elevation along the way since we are going to a lodge in the mountains(=


I do fine on MPG's even living in the city with the worst traffic in Florida. Over a quarter tank in and showing 42.4.


I am really good at holding a steady speed while driving without using cruise control, usually let the car shift around 2000-2200 and coast whenever I can. I could care less if the person behind me gets mad because I am coasting to my turn. The less you touch your brakes the better your gas mileage will be.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickWilly View Post


I do fine on MPG's even living in the city with the worst traffic in Florida. Over a quarter tank in and showing 42.4.


I am really good at holding a steady speed while driving without using cruise control, usually let the car shift around 2000-2200 and coast whenever I can. I could care less if the person behind me gets mad because I am coasting to my turn. The less you touch your brakes the better your gas mileage will be.
The mpg calculator on the dash is in no way an accurate depiction of your actual mpg... You must check by measuring the distance traveled with the trip meter then fill up to determine how many gallons were consumed to go that distance... I have made the mpg calculator on the dash read over 70 mpg many a times...
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:39 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
It's the same argument I made...Two tubes with somewhat different maximum flow capacities, both of which are can easily flow far more than the needs of the given circumstances. It's actually much more applicable than the 'breathing through a straw' examples typically used for to illustrate the effect at WOT.





The air temperature argument for CAI's is not nearly as valid as it was years ago, since most modern cars already draw into the airbox from a "cold air" location, in addition to modern engine bays often being so tight that the CAI cone filter ends up in essentially the same position as the stock airbox anyways. However the inlet to the airbox can frequently be even more ideally positioned than a CAI, since it don't have to fit the whole filter wherever the air is being drawn from. Do you really think that when spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing new engines to meet ever tighter fuel economy and emissions requirements, they would leave such an easy (internet claimed) 5% fuel economy increase on the table? Not a chance. Most WOT power gains typically come from the less restrictive (less effective) filter and the smoothed/enlarged intake tract...Which explains how SRI's can also still show gains over the stock intake at WOT too. Even at max engine flow, a CAI typically nets <5% air flow increase at WOT...Let alone how drastically reduced the effects become at lower throttle openings. The more close the throttle plate is, less everything before the throttle body matters due to the pressure drop across the throttle plate. Reducing that pressure drop across the throttle plate also happens to be why you can actually improve fuel economy by using larger throttle openings at lower rpm to make the same effective power as smaller throttle openings at higher rpm.
Quote:
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I found autolite 104's for 4$ and it took 5 minutes to replace them I highly recommend it! Mine were looking awful at 60K. With copper based plugs they don't last as long but offer a better spark.
Just a question. Do either of you even have a CAI on your focus? I actually have the part in question and it was the first mod I did to my car 3 years ago. I saw an instant increase in mpg... Regardless of what you "think" may be true I have driven with the actual part on my vehicle and I know what results I have gathered. I'm not trying to ruin this poor guys thread. I'm simply telling him what I have done on my car and what results I have yielded from them. Please quit trying to bash with how you don't think it is valid when you have zero experience with said modifications such as lighter wheels.... I'm done trying to explain with additional empirical facts when fact is it worked on my focus
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:03 AM   #35
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Nowhere did I ever state that your experience was not valid, let alone try to "bash" it, any more than you have to us...I merely offered my personal experience(s), the same as you claim to be doing, part of which happened to act as a counterpoint to some of your arguments.

The fact that you saw noticeable gains is great, and makes for a valid data point. But be careful in how much you read into that. Consider that your experience, still has other variables that could have easily contributed to the magnitude of effect that you saw. The same applies to mine and SlickWilly's individual personal experiences, outside of the technical explanations. For instance, you're obviously knowledgeable enough to understand the potential fuel economy hit that comes from 'enjoying' the sounds of the CAI. It's certainly plausible that you could also have subconsciously overcompensated your driving style after the CAI installation as a result of that. It's impossible to say 100% how much of an effect there is, or isn't, without applying the scientific method.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:14 AM   #36
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Crice, not only is my car A LOT faster than yours. In your video you bashed the hell outta everyone "Your car is not as fast as mine, I have a header, blah blah blah" Your video clearly demonstrates that you do NOT have "significant" gains or any at all. IF you look at the 100 times you floored your car in that video and see mine you will see mine is as fast if not faster when it was bone stock.

Also, I used someone elses intake, I wouldn't waste my money on that. I paid the same amount for my nitrous kit as you did for that shiny tube.

In fact CRICE I ran from a stock modded air box, to a "Cold Air Intake" by K&N back to back on the same night, multiple runs and I went from a 16.8X with the stock modded air box to an average of 17.1 with the K&N.

We drive ECOBOX cars they are made to squeeze every MPG out. My dash gauge isn't accurate? How do you even know that? Mine could be more accurate than yours or maybe I do the math at the pump, I am only an aerospace engineer, I don't know if I can handle simple division.

Never should a cold air intake be taken into consideration when trying to get better MPG's. Even if it made any difference, and I am saying IF, it would be so marginal it would be impossible to measure, maybe a penny or two a fill-up.

Mr. "I beat an infinity G37 coupe, because our cars are super light" No way did you beat a 14 second car, when me shooting a bunch of nitrous only runs a 15 flat.

OP, let me know how that plug change goes, I don't know if there is a good way to test a dragging brake honestly.



CRICE: Funniest part is you keep saying I am trying to call you out and do all this shit, and funny thing is out of us two, I am the only one who offered a solution, when I put intakes shouldn't be considered as a mileage booster you jumped on me. Good day sir!
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:35 AM   #37
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For what it's worth, I have data for the last 3 years of owning my focus and in the summer have had an 80 mile commute to/from work each day. I got a deal on a Steeda SRI and got it mainly for the sake of trying it out to see if the gains were there like everyone said. I'd say tip-in throttle response was ever so slightly better and it pulled a little bit harder in the upper RPM's but gas mileage was no different before or after. I had it on for 6-8k miles and when I pulled it off and went back to stock there was no noticeable difference there either.

One tank of gas is not nearly enough data to prove that you're getting better (or worse) mileage. There are way too many variables (is the tank actually full, did ambient air temp change, same exact driving, etc). Put several thousand miles on in one configuration with notes of driving styles, terrain, brand of fuel etc and then change the setup and repeat. You need to actually document and log mileage so you can look at the average, min, max, standard deviation, etc...

I think this summer I may drop in some AR103 plugs to see if there's any change there. My suspicion is nothing noticeable but they're cheap and it'd be a neat experiment. Plus I'm nearing 70k on the Autolite XP's that are in the car so probably a good time to swap them out. When you drive 25-30k miles a year an extra 1 or 2 mpg can add up.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:52 PM   #38
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I'm confused on how your stock car which has the same everything stock as my car with the exception of heavier sea wheels is "faster". Also if you note the date on that video it is an old video and it actually was solely made explaining things Joseph, another member" asked me to explain. I will also clearly admit some of the information I stated in that video is incorrect. I have actually since then removed my header and made the appearance of my car much more stock. I realize our cars are fuel efficient in design and not a sports car.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickWilly View Post
I found autolite 104's for 4$ and it took 5 minutes to replace them I highly recommend it! Mine were looking awful at 60K. With copper based plugs they don't last as long but offer a better spark.
My car has 60k on her now, and I got her with 38k on her last year, so Im sure shes due. So ill get on that

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My mpg ratio increased drastically when I added the FSWerks race exhaust. Mods before that were FSWerks cold air intake and CFM throttle body valve. Waiting to see what kind of results I get when I install the obx header and massive pulley...

Was it just the catback exhaust you got, or the full exhaust?
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:18 PM   #40
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...and so the fighting begins. Slick, even though that Ive only been on here for like 2 whole weeks now, this is the second argument ive seen you responsible for. Why so much animosity? Why be argumentative?
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