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Old 12-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #41
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Wow dang... i hope that not all tunes are like this for mk3s...
We have 160hp NA engines. We aren't going to see large power gains with that setup, regardless of the tuner company.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:03 PM   #42
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In all fairness you were right about the original post not being intended to get a refund and that it was Tom that brought it up. I still stand by the fact that I personally don't think it's right to expect a refund half a year later, and that's not just with a tune. People would keep their tune long enough to enjoy it and then when they wanted to trade their car in their tune would suddenly make them 'unhappy'. Imagine if someone bought a Steeda intake and then felt like it wasn't working...with 6 months of use later...and wanted a refund.

I'm curious as to where your fuel mileage went. Back in September you posted this-


Going up two octane points doesn't equate to 4mpg without a tune. What are you getting now? And I'm asking because I'm seriously curious. When did it drop?

The fan doesn't bother me nor do I even notice it anymore. My Armada sounds pretty much identical after I shut it off from having been driven. I know that one of the updates turned the fan speed down and made it more linear.

It sucks when someone doesn't feel like they've gotten what they paid for, and I sincerely mean that. We had a couple of people that initially spoke of the tuner as though you would feel like it was a 200hp car that ran on unicorn farts. When that was going on I had some side discussion with others that it would cause a let-down in the future. Realistically, the tune has always been about driveability. I can't speak towards the MTX-equipped vehicles, but my DCT-equipped has been noticeably better, even before the DCT tuning.

Many people will tell you that you can only feel x-amount of power addition/loss. I think that's on an individual basis. I don't think you had a placebo effect, I just don't think you are sensitive enough to notice it. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way in the slightest. I was a helicopter flight engineer and it was my job to be in tune with the helicopter enough to know when something felt (literally) wrong.
I agree with dyn on this.. (fellow former helicopter crew member) I went back to stock this morning from the 91 octane injected tune and initially didn't feel much change, but after driving it around a bit I can tell the difference. With the stock tune the car is just a bit more docile and slower to respond, more hesitant in the throttle. I'll keep the tune off the rest of this gas tank to confirm just for arguments sake. You have to keep in mind that gains on the mk3 are not going to be huge numbers. .. we only have ~160 hp to start with!
I might do a tune shoot-out on my own here pretty quick, I have an SCT tuner from my old mustang that I kept and I think it would accept tom's tune. If I can figure out the money side of it I will likely be doing it shortly. ... I already have injected's tune (minus dct tune, it still isn't released to the rest of us).

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Old 12-04-2013, 07:06 PM   #43
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Well i understand why they wouldn't return it but i remember duane telling me the both tom and aric are great tuners. The tunes will have minimal if any differences. This is true. Its preference tbh. If you are super close with your car and drive it as much as i do (80 mile round trip commutes a day) then you know how your car feels by now. I know that either way i choose, i will be happy. Which tom, in my preference is what i want because he offers a good bang for the buck. Im sure aric has a good tune too. Ive seen happy customers on both ends. And i hope the OP's situation gets sorted out
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That's because if a sedan was used there would be too much awesomeness and the internet would explode.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:09 AM   #44
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an 7 years old vtec 2.0 integra can produce 200hp+ without using turbo...
1991-93 integra 2.0 with vtech can produce 160hp like the focus that we are driving
we have direct injection, both intake and exhaust vvt, but only can produce what vtech(only intake vvt) can do 20 years ago?? i dont believe that... the engine must be capable of producing more power for sure.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #45
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I dont see how that post was relevant to what we have been talking about. We are talking about different tuners satisfaction. Not engine power.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:22 AM   #46
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an 7 years old vtec 2.0 integra can produce 200hp+ without using turbo...
1991-93 integra 2.0 with vtech can produce 160hp like the focus that we are driving
we have direct injection, both intake and exhaust vvt, but only can produce what vtech(only intake vvt) can do 20 years ago?? i dont believe that... the engine must be capable of producing more power for sure.
You are talking about ITR? Dont they have better cam's etc then our cars to make that kind of power and they rev to 8.5-9k? I know my car pulls good up to the fuel cut off but I doubt it would pull as good all the way up to 8.5k if it could even be tuned to do that.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:25 AM   #47
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Lets try to keep the thread on topic? Im sure there are threads where we can talk power vs other cars.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #48
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Lets try to keep the thread on topic? Im sure there are threads where we can talk power vs other cars.
Well not sure what else we can say about this topic. OP is not happy with the tune he had and it seems like people are saying just because its 160 hp car that the tune should not be able to help much which is b/s. Every car is different some cars get more from a tune then others, I would think our focus would get more then lets say a stock 99-04 mustang gt just because of all the extra technology this car has over older cars. I know when I had my mustang tuned I could feel a nice difference going from 89 to 93 octane. But that car had full bolt-ons so that could make it get more power who knows.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #49
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Well not sure what else we can say about this topic. OP is not happy with the tune he had and it seems like people are saying just because its 160 hp car that the tune should not be able to help much which is b/s. Every car is different some cars get more from a tune then others, I would think our focus would get more then lets say a stock 99-04 mustang gt just because of all the extra technology this car has over older cars. I know when I had my mustang tuned I could feel a nice difference going from 89 to 93 octane. But that car had full bolt-ons so that could make it get more power who knows.
I don't think you fully understand what we're saying. We aren't saying that there will be nothing because it is 160HP NA. We're saying not to expect 50 ft lb gains because it won't happen. We're also talking about only the tune-not how much power our motors could see when fully modded.

Just like every product in the world, there is always going to be someone that is let down or upset. This doesn't make the Injected tune bad because there are lots of satisfied customers. I have a friend that had his motor blown by a custom SCT tune from a Focus tuner. Does that make all of SCT tuners bad? No. The OP may not be pleased, but at least he can still drive his car.

The point is that some people have unrealistic expectations. Maybe you can thank the Fast and the Furious series for that, maybe they've just been looking at too many dyno sheets of turbo tunes-who knows?
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:38 AM   #50
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I went back to stock for a quick drive, and while I can't say it was a 'night and day' difference, I did notice a difference none the less. I also monitored/datalogged (using Torque app with bluetooth obd2 adapter) and saw a few differences real-time and in the logs as well.
One difference that I thought to be an eye opener was that with the stock calibration, I saw a few instances at wide open throttle, ~100% engine load, where the AFRs were in the 14.5-14.7 range for several seconds. To me, that seems potentially unsafe for the longevity of the engine. I only noticed this when at low rpms (around 3k... for example, cruising at 70mph in 5th gear then flooring the throttle without downshifting). I hardly ever floor the throttle without downshifting on the highway, but if anyone reading this does this and doesn't have a tune, you may want to downshift first. With the tune, AFRs went to ~12.5 immediately in the same situation. (note: I monitored this in real-time as well; when I floored it and noticed it hadn't gone to 12.5 AFR after a few seconds, I got out of it. I don't know how long it would have stayed like this, although I vaguely recall Injected mentioning a 1500 rpm fuel enrichment delay in the stock calibration. I also recall a few mk3s with blown engines from what 1turbofocus believes to have been caused by running too lean... I wonder if this has something to do with that.)

I also noticed that the tune advances more timing in the upper RPM range (above 4500) at WOT than the stock cal. I saw as much as 31.5* where as the stock calibration only advanced 21* max.
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