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Old 11-04-2013, 01:36 PM   #21
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Never driven a car with cruise that doesn't engine brake downhill to maintain a constant speed.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #22
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Ahem...

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267447
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobie56 View Post
all i know is that in D (6 gear engaged) at 65+ mph going down a grade on an interstate with CC on the engine will rev strongly as if it's braking the car. The selected speed via CC will not allow the car to deviate more than one or two mph above that... (my old focus under same conditions on same road would speed up some 10 15 mph more than CC selected speed w/o revving the engine) Dealer tells me this is normal operation of CC with this tranny.
Ahhhh I understand now, I thought we were talking about (S) little trick is to manually shift to 6th in CC. You won't downshift
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madaB View Post
The point of cruise control is to keep a consistent speed... Without being able to use the brakes, how else is cruise going to maintain that speed other than engine braking?
It depends...

If a car has a manual transmission, of course the cruise control can only control the throttle.
Whether or not the CC will also facilitate engine braking (by downshifting an automatic) is not a given.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:03 PM   #25
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If you're in CC with the car in select shift mode in 6th gear the car will absolutely not downshift
Really???

I've never tried it but that seems absurd.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
It depends...

If a car has a manual transmission, of course the cruise control can only control the throttle.
Whether or not the CC will also facilitate engine braking (by downshifting an automatic) is not a given.
Most cars with womanboxes, er... (Just kidding) I mean automatics, don't downshift going down a hill. Thoughts it a feature of a small handful. Ultimately you need to be in control of the vehicle, and aware of what's going on!
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:56 PM   #27
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Most cars with womanboxes, er... (Just kidding) I mean automatics...
Times have changed.

I used to think automatic transmission = slushbox.

These days there are a number of cars with an optional automatic outperforming a manual.

Also keep in mind that a GT-R (one example of many) is only available with an automatic.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Times have changed.

I used to think automatic transmission = slushbox.

These days there are a number of cars with an optional automatic outperforming a manual.

Also keep in mind that a GT-R (one example of many) is only available with an automatic.
For sure.

That was mostly just jest. I prefer a manual, but that's just because I prefer it! Some prefer an automatic.

For the sake of argument though; most of those cars are not automatics; they are automated manuals. Pedantic I know, but, there's an important difference and that's in the clutch. The 'slushbox' term, as you probably know, comes from the torque converter. And I know you know how they work (judging by your knowledgeable posts elsewhere) but for the benefit of others reading, basically (put very simply), it's pumping fluid across two turbines. One attached to the engine, the other to the transmission. The end result is reduced power transfer to the transmission, 'softer' shifting and performance, and other disadvantages. Those 'slushbox' automatics are still popular among drag racers in 2 and 3 speed variations because at WOT some of the disadvantages are minimized and the lack of a need to shift is handy. (Though top fuel dragsters only have one gear, and use a series of clutches!). Torque converters also have a huge disadvantage in engine braking. The transmission needs to be in a low lower 'gear' in order for engine braking to take effect. That's why you can take your foot off the gas and coast with an automatic (though an automated manual may mimick that by releasing the clutch during coasting). That was the intent of what I was saying, most true automatics do not do any real engine braking with cruise control because they are at a disadvantage there. An automated manual though, might.

A clutch connects nearly all of the power to the engine. Take advancements in clutch technology, computer technology, and transmissions, and you can take a standard manual transmission and connect it with a computer controlled clutch for fantastic performance. (There's a 'hybrid' variation of this in a lot of big rigs, where the driver selects the appropriate gear to start with and the clutch pedal is used when stopped and to take off from a stop, but is no longer needed once moving; the computer takes over shifting and the clutch functions).

No doubt that dual-clutch 'automated manuals' are the pinnacle of performance when done right. Though they are very different. This thread is further evidence of that. People not expecting it to behave like it does; because it behaves a lot more like a manual, because it is! The Ford DCT, for example, is a 6 speed manual transmission. It is! The difference is between the transmission and the engine; what makes it an 'automatic' is the automated dual-clutch system. (Okay, there are some internal changes if you get really technical, but the idea is the same).

As for MY preference, I won't notice 1mpg difference, and sometimes performance arguments get silly. Half a second on 0-60? A couple mph in top speed? Ultimately, those things are useless. Kind of like guys arguing who has the highest top speed. Aside from an oval NASCAR track, even a race car on a track rarely sees it's top speed. In fact, much of the track is done below 100mph!

For me, it comes down to fun to drive. I don't care if a car can do 160, 180, or 200. That's not where the fun is. The fun is in the handling and the 0-60 acceleration. The fun is also being in control of the car and having the fun of a manual transmission (which isn't for everyone, some prefer an automatic). After all, it's a focus. There are much faster cars for similar, or a little bit more money. Or, heck, you can get a used low mileage Mustang GT for under $20k. But no reason not to have something that is fun to drive, and reliable! The manual transmission makes that more of a reality, IMO. Plus, automated manuals and slushbox automatics alike are generally less reliable than a manual. A manual transmission has less parts and the parts are simple!

Kudos to Ford though. I think the DCT is awesome. I do think Ford should educate the customers though. Like, calling it an automated manual in the book instead of an automatic. Elsewhere they call it that, but I think they do a disservice telling customers they have an automatic transmission; because they really don't, and they should be educated in how it will behave differently than the automatics they are used to. They could also be educated on how to get the most out of it!

I test drove one with a DCT (nothing with a manual in stock). It was a great transmission! But I still prefer a manual.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #29
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Personally I never run CC while in Sport mode, that is reserved for spirited driving, especially on the twisties. Cruise is reserved for highway with the car set to Drive.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:28 PM   #30
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I agree with Roman5.8 on his description of the DCT. Yes it will downshift while going downhill and living in a mountainous area, Vancouver Island, I like it. Going down mountain passes I deselect cc and go to S and manually control the gear selection. While following other vehicles down the passes with most on them hard on the brakes coming to curves I drop one or two gears and normally don't have to touch the brakes. Yes the engine revs up, but this engine is redlined over 6000 rpm. My previous vehicle an Escape will a TC type auto would also downshift going downhill on a long grade with cc on. It would do much faster if the downhill control button was depressed. Some of us are much more automatic dependant as we have aged and our knees are shot. Just loved that six speed manual tranny in my old HD 5.9 diesel pickup, but it could not engine brake going downhill without the exhaust engine break activated. Happy Cruising.
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