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Old 10-26-2013, 07:57 PM   #1
wavsine
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Running Pennzoil Platinum in your MK3?

$10 rebate:

http://www.fallsynthetics.com/offer_...TOKEN=66743947


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Synthetic oil in GDI engines
www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324396

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Old 10-26-2013, 08:13 PM   #2
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I bought 10L worth on a sale that essentially made it $12/5L. I haven't put it in the car yet (probably won't for a while, either).
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:50 PM   #3
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I'm about to perform my first oil change at 1,500km
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:32 AM   #4
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there was a recent thread saying how this stuff was better than Mobil 1 in terms of a certain aspect, critical to our engines, but I did not bookmark it, so I don't remember . . .
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Duffman355 View Post
there was a recent thread saying how this stuff was better than Mobil 1 in terms of a certain aspect, critical to our engines, but I did not bookmark it, so I don't remember . . .
Probably the thread related to fuel dilution. There's a theory going around that these direct injected engines, including the 2.0L Duratec, dillute the oil with fuel and thus you need an oil that can withstand that.

I haven't seen anyone produce a UOA showing any measurable fuel dillution, though. So not really sure if it's a real concern or not.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:01 AM   #6
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The main concern with a GDI engine is intake valve carbon fouling. A Used Oil Analysis will not show you that is happening. You may have no fuel dilution whatsoever and still end up with intake valves that look like this because of oil vapor coking the intake valves. Picture is of a Mazda DI engine.

Ford recently did a live teardown of an Ecoboost engine. Notably absent is a picture of the intake valves although the crowns of the pistons are pretty coked. The irony to the use of a "torture tested" engine for evaluation of intake valve carbon fouling is that an engine run hard and at full throttle is likely to have less carbon fouling than one that is driven at low rpm. Why? Because high rpm equals high heat and high intake air velocity which helps to burn the carbon off the valves. Ford ran the engine at high speed for 24 hours straight. That would qualify as the ultimate Italian tuneup. I would like to see them do a teardown of a GDI motor driven in a more typical fashion with stop and go city driving and extended idling.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01...ooks-like.html

The reason I use a low volatility (low NOACK score) synthetic oil is to try to minimize what you see in the picture below. 5W-20 synthetic oils with notably low volatility include Amsoil and Pennzoil Ultra.
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Use a Motorcraft FL-400S filter to increase filtration media and oil quantity. (Drop in for FL-910S)

Synthetic oil in GDI engines
www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324396

Last edited by wavsine; 10-27-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavsine View Post
The main concern with a GDI engine is intake valve carbon fouling. A Used Oil Analysis will not show you that is happening. You may have no fuel dilution whatsoever and still end up with intake valves that look like this because of oil vapor coking the intake valves. Picture is of a Mazda DI engine.

Ford recently did a live teardown of an Ecoboost engine. Notably absent is a picture of the intake valves although the crowns of the pistons are pretty coked. The irony to the use of a "torture tested" engine for evaluation of intake valve carbon fouling is that an engine run hard and at full throttle is likely to have less carbon fouling than one that is driven at low rpm. Why? Because high rpm equals high heat and high intake air velocity which helps to burn the carbon off the valves. Ford ran the engine at high speed for 24 hours straight. That would qualify as the ultimate Italian tuneup. I would like to see them do a teardown of a GDI motor driven in a more typical fashion with stop and go city driving and extended idling.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01...ooks-like.html

The reason I use a low volatility (low NOACK score) synthetic oil is to try to minimize this. 5W-20 synthetic oils with notably low volatility include Amsoil and Pennzoil Ultra.
Gotcha! Good info.

I never did like those high RPM tests. First off, 24 hours is nothing. The marketing wants you to think it's a lot, but it's not. If you drive 100,000 miles, you could expect upwards of 2,000 hours on your engine (perhaps even near 2500 or more depending on how much idling and/or highway high speed driving you do). Second, constant RPM's (even high RPM's) are easy for engines. It's starting, stopping, idling, taking off cold, hard acceleration, cruising with fluctuations in speed, etc., that's hard on an engine over it's life.

Let's see ford put 2,000 hours on an engine with various starts and stop, allowing the engine to cool, applying load to a cold engine (as many people do when they start it up and immediately take off), etc., and do a teardown. Marketing convinces you that they 'tortured' an engine by running it at high speed for 24 hours, but they didn't do anything the engine wasn't designed to easily handle. Look at piston airplane engines that spend most of their life at the upper end of their RPM range (especially fixed pitch prop planes). Engines that routinely have thousands of hours on them. 'Overhauls' (rebuilds) are typically done around 2500 hours. So, to put that in 'car years', imagine a typical airplane is like driving your car down the interstate at 75mph in 3rd gear for 150,000 miles. Even those 'overhauls' are done with way less wear than a typical car engine is rebuilt at, but of course, engine failures in the air are mighty inconvenient, so it's a 'better safe than sorry' case there.

Anyway; off topic bit over- good info on the intake valves. I suppose I misunderstood you before. Personally, I run Amsoil in mine. Just performs well. On my motorcycle, the transmission shares oil with the engine. After a couple thousand miles with various other brands of oil shifting gets clunky and sticky. With Amsoil, it's still smooth and 'clicks' into each gear all the way up until I change the oil. That's no replacement for UOA's or even evaluating wear, but it should be an indicator that Amsoil performs consistently. Often people mistake things like UOA's as being a 'good time to change' when it's out of spec. But that's just not right. When the oil is worn out or out of spec, it's way too late. Oil needs to be in-spec 100% of the time in your engine. That's precisely WHY we change it.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:44 PM   #8
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Second, constant RPM's (even high RPM's) are easy for engines.
That is not necessarily true at all.

Clearly there is a huge difference between high RPM and little or no load operation vs. high RPM and high load operation, especially with a turbocharged engine.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #9
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Let's see ford put 2,000 hours on an engine with various starts and stop, allowing the engine to cool, applying load to a cold engine (as many people do when they start it up and immediately take off), etc., and do a teardown
If you read the article, that's exactly what happened. They put the engine on a dyno at max power for 300 hours included repeated cooling to 20 below and heated to 235 degrees, then installed in an F150. That truck was then put to work towing 11k pounds, towing Richard Petty's racecars around Miami Speedway for 1600 miles (averaging over 80mph), and several other real-world testing scenarios.

I'm a little skeptical of torture tests, and this one actually impressed me. For a rough equivalent of over 400,000 consumer miles, I was very shocked at the condition of the engine, being cleaner than I expected it to be. Gotta give props to the engineering team at Ford for that one.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:21 PM   #10
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If you read the article, that's exactly what happened. They put the engine on a dyno at max power for 300 hours included repeated cooling to 20 below and heated to 235 degrees, then installed in an F150. That truck was then put to work towing 11k pounds, towing Richard Petty's racecars around Miami Speedway for 1600 miles (averaging over 80mph), and several other real-world testing scenarios.

I'm a little skeptical of torture tests, and this one actually impressed me. For a rough equivalent of over 400,000 consumer miles, I was very shocked at the condition of the engine, being cleaner than I expected it to be. Gotta give props to the engineering team at Ford for that one.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37345

Quote:
The Ford engineers want to see how the 3.5L EcoBoost "Hero" engine # 448AA parts and components held up after being tortured with test after test. The team will disassemble the engine and check measurements on components to assess the wear for long term durability. They are expected to complete this task in approximately 1 hour in front of the public in Cobo Hall.

“Customers will be able to see for themselves how the components fared during a regime of tests that, when taken together, are far more extreme than even the harshest-use customer could dish out,” said Jim Mazuchowski, V6 engines programs manager. “This EcoBoost truck engine received no special treatment, and now we’re going to see how it did.”

The F-150 EcoBoost engine saw its first action on the dyno in July. Engineers punished it in temperature and load extremes simulating nearly 10 years of use – a regimen tougher than any consumer could ever subject a truck to. At this point, most engines would be ready to be rebuilt or retired, but the EcoBoost testing engine was just beginning.

The engine was dropped into a regular production 2011 F-150 at Kansas City Assembly Plant Then it hit the road and saw some of the most severe use Ford engineers have ever dreamed up.

• It hauled 55 tons of lumber
• It ran at full throttle for 24 straight hours towing 11,300 pounds
• Beat competitors’ larger engines in an uphill towing competition
• Completed the world’s toughest desert endurance race, the SCORE Tecate Baja 1000 in Mexico
While at Homestead-Miami Speedway, the 2011 F-150 EcoBoost:
Turned 1,061 laps
Compiled 1,606 miles
Had a fast lap of 99 mph
Averaged 82 mph

“The engine and the truck performed flawlessly,” said Eric Kuehn, chief engineer of the 2011 Ford F-150. “These demonstrations reinforce that every engine we put under the hood of a Ford F-Series has to pass all of our Built Ford Tough testing – and pass it readily.”

Of particular importance to maximum towing customers is the performance of the stock turbochargers and cooling systems tested during this demonstration.

“The twin turbochargers were pushed to the absolute limit multiple times every single lap with no problems whatsoever,” said Kuehn. “The stock cooling systems were outstanding as well. The engine coolant, transmission temperatures and oil temperatures ran at or below where we expected throughout the entire test.”

The perception of power is being displaced by modern technology. The advances in supplying fuel at high pressures by direct injection, turbocharging, and electronic ignition control are putting to rest the ages old adage, “There is no replacement for displacement!”
It's certainly not the first time an automaker has torture tested their own products internally through dyno testing as well as climate testing in the real world and in the laboratory. However it was one of the most public facing campaigns in years in order to try to demonstrate that truck guys don't have to have a V8 to have a durable and reliable truck.

For as many miles on the engine and as dirty and battered it was by the desert at the end the internals sure didn't look like they suffered much from all of the thermal stresses and cycles put into the parts.
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