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Old 10-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #21
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I have posted my thoughts on engine oil weights before - http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274344

Short story, judging the protection capability of an oil by the SAE weight on the label is like judging the performance capability of an engine by the number of cylinders.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:39 AM   #22
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read your posts. and that thread. I will likely go with a solid weight of 30 weight for the first 100 mile brake in (its October and is a little on the cooler side, and will be in November before I get the motor first turned over and running on the road. and then go to a 5w-30 with a good HTHS number. Sounds like just a good filter and good interval changes will be the best thing. I will likely change the oil after any HPDE I participate in.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:37 AM   #23
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'judging the protection capability of an oil by the SAE weight on the label...........'

And yet the major manufacturers of the world have done just that for over 100 years now, fancy that............. besides syn or not, just what other criteria could they use, being that any other you could name would pretty much be in any oil you could buy over the counterexcept for the synthetic oil molecule itself. They still use oil weight as a factor and HEAVILY even today, one just has to recognize the somewhat difference as modified by synthetic qualities. The difference in syn oil vs. conventional is still heavily overpaid for, 90% of the engines using it do NOT need it except for owner vanity. We ran 1200-1500 HP engines on conventional back in the late '80s and oil issues as caused by weight or type were not the major problem.

My feeling is now beginning to sway to the fact that removing zinc and the resultant reformulation of additive packages has improved even conventional oil too. I liked the zinc but I never seemed to be able to run conventional oil as long as I do now. Of course the electronic engine control has much to do with that as well.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:09 AM   #24
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Just went and read the entire thread listed there, I really see nothing that changes my view. Getting all scientific about factors and this or that do not replace many years of seeing what does work and well. I ran straight 40 in my zetec for years until you could not get it cheap then straight 30 after that, now back to 10-40, the cars can't be worn out and with in my case what is probably one of the crappiest oils out there. If running a hi-perf engine I'm quite sure I could still do it just fine with a heavy weight oil. If I ever ran a turbo I'd probably look closer at the oil but no need as of yet.

I went through two stroke oil wars many years ago, you wanna test an oil?? Cut it 95% with gasoline then you'll get an idea d-mn quick of whether it is any good or not. You usually find out when the bike makes that funny long squeak at 11000 rpm about 1/10th of a second before it throws your ass onto the pavement. BTDT, my arthritis now shows me exactly what I hit on that day.........you 4 stroke guys got it easy with lube issues, with two strokes you had to fight for every small increase in compression and engine change. You had to do all sorts of weird things to the engines to make them not seize up as you went a little faster. Syn oil back then would've been a godsend.

My view is if you just put in enough effort to stop car from misfiring and fix it quickly when it overheats the FIRST time instead of screwing around and complaining about it and just change oil and filter these are some of the best engines out there, I would not be quick to say the same about the car itself.

Magus, your plan will work fine..............
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:15 AM   #25
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..........and you DO pretty much judge the performance of an engine by the number of cylinders. With several caveats of course.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
'judging the protection capability of an oil by the SAE weight on the label...........'

And yet the major manufacturers of the world have done just that for over 100 years now, fancy that..
Not any more. Look at all the new ACEA specs; SAE weight is hardly a consideration. Talk to the person who helped design the GM engine oil life monitor and tested it on the Corvette Z06. SAE weight is a tertiary consideration at best.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe that your thinking, much like you example, is based on 1980s data. A lot has changed since then.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:42 AM   #27
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I do not necessarily concur, engines still pretty much blow up the same way and for the same reasons as before. Quite frankly I do not see change coming there, the engine physics do not ever change. The oil may, but still engines of iron and aluminum. I hear all this crap about how they are built for the oil used now but one simple look at any book clearances says no, they could build them that close back, then just harder to do all the same. Computers and modern engine tooling just tightened that variance up. They are ultimately no tighter than before if you factor toward the low side tolerances. So, what's changed? Motorcycles were at very high specific output and the advanced construction techniques cars now use twenty five years ago and I was with them. I'll give serious consideration when they start using plastic rods and pistons, which may not be that far away.

One thing that has changed is the brainwash that has people thinking $10/qt. of oil is a good deal. That could have never survived in earlier years where people demanded more value for the money. The oil companies have definitely made headway there. The oil IS good but simply no need for it as I stated.

I'm thinking 1500 HP back then would be the same 1500 HP today. And many many engines made enough power before 1980 to pretty much prove the point. Figure out how to PCM them all and you would see both power and life increase on them. With no oil changes at all. I'm now pretty much convinced that a good OBD setup and good exhaust valves/seats on virtually any grocery getter '60s engine could make it top 200K miles, old school says 130-150K was often the max averaged out back then.

Not saying new oil ideas are bad, not at all, rather, overpriced to take advantage of those who now think it's acceptable to go there. I see new oil as helping gas mileage fractionally but it will never be the major provider of mileage. Did a quick figure of 5-20 oil by Ford mileage quote of improvement and $7 saved a year, I can spit on the sidewalk and get that. I'd rather have the thicker oil since conventional.

You got a hotrod? Put good oil in it, it just may not need to be the most expensive. I drive granny cars now, I turned all the hig-perf thinking toward stretching my buck without going nuts doing it. When people quote how they were so happy to spend $50 on the next oil special, I just think about my $15 normal non-sale price and smile to myself. I'd probably even be doing it with a 'Vette. And getting away with it.

The newer specs you mention probably all involve syn oils, they have no application in my world as of yet. Still too high. Make them $2.50/qt. and you got my attention!

Major problem is, I don't think the oil industry can get its' head around just how to all-at-once phase out conventional oil to get rid of the lower priced stuff to then leave nothing but syn oil to purchase. I intend to flaunt that loophole as long as I can, at least until they lower conventional oil quality enough to start blowing up my cars.

Locked in the '80s? Locked in the '70s? No matter, I do not care as long as I can make $30+ on every oil change and still not tear up the car as compared to others who do not get any appreciable mileage in added life over my stuff while springing for the more expensive stuff.

I am clear minded enough if I got another hot rod I would reconsider that, but no guarantee I would do different............
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