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Old 09-28-2013, 03:22 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autolite View Post
Heard all DCT's are based on LuK's parts, could not verify it independently,
LUK did design and builds the unit for gertrag.Parts where developed and dies built in Germany most parts are stamped in Ohio and shipped for assembly in Mexico per Gertrag to assemble to the Mexico built transmission.
LuK Clutch Systems, LLC. designed and manufacture the dual dry single plate clutch system for the Volkswagen Group seven-speed DQ200 Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG) introduced in 2008. This DSG variant is used in smaller cars, with smaller displacement engines with relatively low torque outputs.

The first series production DCT for the Volkswagen Group was the DQ250 six-speed dual-clutch transmission with dual concentric wet multi-plate clutches. It was produced at the Group's Kassel plant under exclusive license from Borg-Warner

The 6DCT250 from Getrag uses a newly developed LuK lever actuator for actuating the double clutch.
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi...2010_10_en.pdf

LUK did/does not design nor build Getrag DCT trannies.

The six-speed dual-shift gearbox in Ford's has a four-shaft "gear pack" from Getrag and a dual-clutch assembly from LuK.
Very informative article explaining the differences between VW's & Ford's dry clutch trannies. Including lots of details on dealing with thermal issues (over heating transmissions issues)
http://www.automotivedesign.eu.com/a...l-sensing.aspx
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:32 PM   #52
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IMO DCT and CVT don't belong in cars.
And with all the problems listed here it seems I may be right.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:49 PM   #53
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Again, you can blame government fuel efficiency standards, otherwise nobody would have gone to dct or cvt.

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Old 09-28-2013, 07:08 PM   #54
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[QUOTE=slybarman;4887860]Again, you can blame government fuel efficiency standards, otherwise nobody would have gone to dct or cvt.

That is correct! Because of the draconian fuel economy standards (that will obviously get worse), car makers are forced to put in technologies in their vehicles before they are fully developed. If cars become unreliable in the future, blame the government (although I am not letting Ford off the hook). Automakers do not want to put faulty equipment in their cars because it is simply bad business. However, to stay in business, they have to bow to the idiots in the EPA and our government. This is what happens when choice is taken away from us. There are people angry at the fact that proven cars like the Grand Marquis/Town Car was no more! I will admit that as recently as 2010/2011, Ford was one of the top five in reliably. It dropped about twenty points in 2012!

Back to the topic. The dry clutch DCT will take years for it to become fully developed. I would say the safe time to buy one would be in five years.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:52 PM   #55
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IMO DCT and CVT don't belong in cars.
And with all the problems listed here it seems I may be right.
Many high performance car manufacturers would disagree strongly with you.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:54 PM   #56
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Again, you can blame government fuel efficiency standards, otherwise nobody would have gone to dct or cvt.
A Nissan GT-R has a DCT for better fuel economy? Really?
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:56 PM   #57
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The dry clutch DCT will take years for it to become fully developed. I would say the safe time to buy one would be in five years.
What exactly are the issues that Ford still has to overcome?
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:34 PM   #58
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What exactly are the issues that Ford still has to overcome?
The fact that it still can't handle hot weather or high traffic situations. The clutches tend to overheat quickly. If you drive the DCT in cooler weather, it is okay. I think the programming is an issue, as well. I have had clutch replacements and reprogramming. It still makes the occasional grinding noise. If you release pressure on the gas pedal just before it shifts, the transmission quiets.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:57 AM   #59
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I thought BlueIce already took the Easter Bunny out?
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Wasn't that the energizer bunny? (He kept going and going and ...)
It was the Energizer bunny dressed as the Easter bunny for Halloween?
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:23 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
... The number of people who have actual defects in their transmissions is such a small number. Everyone else who complains is just whining because it's different.
There are at least four problems here:

1. DCTs that are clearly defective and need to be repaired.

2. Owners who don't have the first problem but believe they do because the DCT is different than the conventional automatic transmissions they are familiar with and were expecting it to be. (Some argue that those buyers should have known what they were buying. Others say Ford should have made it clear to them -- before the sale rather than after. Probably some truth to both.)

3. Dealer service people who are either unable or unwilling to tell the first two apart. (Some attribute this to incompetence. Some to deception. Probably some truth to both.)

4. Reoccuring failures of confirmed defective DCTs that have been repaired. (Bad design? Defective parts? Improperly performed repairs? All of the above?)

Apparently there are no reliable numbers that have been made public to show how many of each there have been. All we can do is guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post
Multiple dealers have made statements to various forum members indicating that the problem is quite pervasive. My own dealer told me they are doing re-works on Focus transmissions "all day every day".

There is a shortage of parts to do the repairs.

There have been multiple redesigns of the parts. Clutch packs are on revision D I believe and the seals are on their second or third revision.

I spoke with my local Enterprise rent a car about issues with the Focus DCTs in their fleet. They indicated they have has nothing but problems with them.

None of that suggests a very very minor issue to me.
Statements by dealer service departments, parts shortages, and part revisions probably point toward the first and fourth categories.

Comments from a car rental company probably aren't as clear an indicator as the others if they don't distinguish between the first and second categories. If their customer says there is a problem then there is a problem. It would not make sense for them to argue with their customer about whether they're just not adapting to the behavior of a DCT or if it is really broken.
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