Leaky Zetec valve cover gasket - Page 2 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2013, 07:18 AM   #11
qweesy
Focus Addict
 
qweesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Fan#: 12042
Location: Houston, TX
What I Drive: 2004 focus Duratec 2.3 RS (DEAD)

Posts: 1,164
FF Reputation: 3 qweesy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
No problem..............

Actually, LOTS of people get hung up on the bolts. They try to put non-shouldered bolt with a different non-sleeved cover and then ten pages of posts before they finally get it after cover gasket squeezed into pieces there. Sometimes on 2 or 3 gaskets.......

I could care less what Ford calls the bolt, take the bolt and put it in the hole, it is NOT a pilot if you can wobble it around. A pilot has no wobble in it. The bolt you show clearly is not shouldered and the small increase in size is almost imagined, or silly. That doesn't pilot squat. Look at say a true shouldered bolt for comparison. A definite step that you don't have to imagine to see. They pilot as well as limit. The earlier zetec gaskets also piloted and 100% since the grommet at bolt hole was forced into a smaller space. At one time even the bolts had separate rubber bushings to pilot. But Ford decided too much piloting going on there, can't change covers quick like that. Too many gaskets getting torn up. I can clearly see the bolt holes in cover are way bigger than the bolt, that idea here is dead. The more bolts you have in the pattern the less need for piloting anyway, or the opposite of what you say. ALL bolt patterns on the planet, except for maybe the space shuttle, have variance in them, that variance becomes the pilot as each bolt being slightly off interferes with others. The more bolts you have in place the tighter the part gets as far as it moving around. Pull like some covers or trans cases that have lots of bolts, loosen all bolts but leave them in and see how much you can move the cover case sideways, then pull all but maybe 2 or 3 and do it again. it becomes razor sharp and clear that more bolts equals less cover slop on virtually anything even unpiloted. If you have the shoulder provided for in the cover you can easily use off the shelf hardware store bolts to replace the Ford expensive ones and cover won't leak a drop, just get all bolts in and put hand on cover and wiggle it a bit to settle in the pattern and tighten them up.

Scotchbrite IS gouging the aluminum, or you couldn't remove material to be dead clean there........................more concerned about the miniscule bits of scotchbrite that come loose, used to have a printing supervisor that I had to choke until I convinced him the scotchbrite he had us cleaning cylinders with was fragging small little bits into rollers to later scratch up printing plates. Get rid of scotchbrite, BAM! (thank you, EMIL!) problem gone. 'Course they had to fire him for other stupid things before I could change that policy. Again, I do not care what Ford says there, I've seen the trash come off scotchbrite. If used at all it gets harder to clean with it just like sandpaper after a few minutes, why? Some of the abrasive came loose and gone. But where? Yes, I'm anal retentive, but I use a razor blade as well, drag it across with sharp edge TRAILING and no material removal but nice clean aluminum just like the vid. Stroke biased toward out and no material the blade removes ends up inside the gasket line.

Biggest trouble people seem to have is the new gasket leaking (you address that pretty well, or not cleaning the cover good enough) and then breaking bolts off to make nightmares. (NOT so well). I NEVER bother with a tightening pattern, rather jumping around to the high points to get them lower like the others, but the main thing is NOT TO OVERTIGHTEN the bolts, they break easily and anyway the stop limit prevents you from coming back and tightening down harder to stop a leak because you didn't clean cover properly. But they always insist on doing it and broke bolt city. I always stop at the bolt hit down solid on the sleeve and even them all up then. After that I go around and tighten just a smidge more to guarantee no bolt backoff, you CANNOT tighten more to seal after that hit. Not understanding that will get you broken bolt every time. Doing that, no torque wrench needed ever, and cannot remember the last time a gasket leaked, been years.

If you do torque, no more than 7 ft.lbs., the aluminum pulls thread at around 10. When I think about it I'll work in a circle from center out.

No insult implied or intended at all, just some real world thoughts. Yes, I micromanage, I do not have to do it lightning fast like the old days, but I DO know how to make it go right and last forever. Building lots of race engines makes you start nitpicking everything, I did plenty of that. My flaw is being a perfectionist in a world that hates them, somehow I managed to make my way through that pretty well, although I had to change some as well.

haha we agree for once
qweesy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-28-2013, 09:14 PM   #12
makuloco2000
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Fan#: 34231
Location: Illinois
What I Drive: 01' Focus LX

Posts: 96
FF Reputation: 8 makuloco2000 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
All I can say is wow! My eyes are burning just reading all that. What I can say is that even if for only for a final cleaning the scotch brite pad makes it the smoothest gouge free surface on aluminum, even the razor blade when used properly leaves some scratches. In fact it is so smooth and perfect when your done it looks like a new part, that's what I want. I know the pad wears through and the material is coming off that's why you use it correctly or you don't use it at all. Not sure I showed but first I cleaned area with brake clean on a rag, then razor blade for high builds of varnish, then for what was left a final polishing with the pad, not the whole time. Also for what it is worth, I have never seen an engine failure due to a few crumbs scotch brite that got past the goalie. I think we are taking this a bit far. Its when techs use those sanding abrasive roloc disc is when we can start to get into trouble. Let me just say this I never have and probably never will see an engine failure in my career from using this method period. It will be some other reason, oil too low, valve seats drop 2.0l SPI, mileage 300K 2.0l Duratec, oil press loss due to engineering design flaws 5.4 3v etc............................
__________________
Check out all my Ford Tech Repair Videos @
http://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco/videos
Please Subscribe. Always something new and interesting!
makuloco2000 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 02:58 AM   #13
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,501
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Whatever.

You WON'T see an engine failure, rather the engine wears out bearings quicker and motor does not last as long if anything. Easy to dismiss anything that customer cannot bring back in 2 weeks, I know how the system works. Ford has been a master at that for many years and trains specifically to cover it.

You can use the razor blade in trailing fashion and not nearly the residue, the clean gasket surface seals just as well as with scotchbrite. Been doing it for years. If the surface scratches you are not using the blade right.

Welcome to the party, you're not the first Ford tech I've dissed................
amc49 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 09:04 AM   #14
makuloco2000
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Fan#: 34231
Location: Illinois
What I Drive: 01' Focus LX

Posts: 96
FF Reputation: 8 makuloco2000 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Whatever.

You WON'T see an engine failure, rather the engine wears out bearings quicker and motor does not last as long if anything. Easy to dismiss anything that customer cannot bring back in 2 weeks, I know how the system works. Ford has been a master at that for many years and trains specifically to cover it.

You can use the razor blade in trailing fashion and not nearly the residue, the clean gasket surface seals just as well as with scotchbrite. Been doing it for years. If the surface scratches you are not using the blade right.

Welcome to the party, you're not the first Ford tech I've dissed................
Hard Steel razor blade on a soft aluminum surface, the soft aluminum will win that everytime...right. It's going to do something to it guaranteed, that's why after using the blade I smooth it out with the pad. If there is a car that comes in with a gasket leaking its probably not ford warranty and is customer pay job and around here our dealer stands behind it even years later, it's one of those family run smaller dealers where everybody knows everybody and we have regular customers not just warranty customers. So if their engine failed or is making noises, or is burning oil now a year or two later I would know about it for sure. Real world is what I see everyday being in the business. Can't wait to hear your petty criticism on my next videos. Thanks for watching!! Nuff said.....
__________________
Check out all my Ford Tech Repair Videos @
http://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco/videos
Please Subscribe. Always something new and interesting!
makuloco2000 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 11:08 AM   #15
qweesy
Focus Addict
 
qweesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Fan#: 12042
Location: Houston, TX
What I Drive: 2004 focus Duratec 2.3 RS (DEAD)

Posts: 1,164
FF Reputation: 3 qweesy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by makuloco2000 View Post
Hard Steel razor blade on a soft aluminum surface, the soft aluminum will win that everytime...right. It's going to do something to it guaranteed, that's why after using the blade I smooth it out with the pad. If there is a car that comes in with a gasket leaking its probably not ford warranty and is customer pay job and around here our dealer stands behind it even years later, it's one of those family run smaller dealers where everybody knows everybody and we have regular customers not just warranty customers. So if their engine failed or is making noises, or is burning oil now a year or two later I would know about it for sure. Real world is what I see everyday being in the business. Can't wait to hear your petty criticism on my next videos. Thanks for watching!! Nuff said.....
As AMC49 said "If the surface scratches you are not using the blade right."

You should NOT use scotchbrite on an open head period unless you are taking it off disassembling and plan on putting it in a wash vat.

Those small particles WILL scar bearing surfaces and WILL wear sooner, this is a "how to" thread you created don't give others bad & wrong information.
qweesy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 11:48 AM   #16
FocusKnot
Focus Enthusiast
 
FocusKnot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Fan#: 117505
Location: Dallas, TX
What I Drive: 2004 Red SE Wagon 2.0 Zetec Auto

Posts: 479
FF Reputation: 3 FocusKnot Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Just for grins, I looked in my Ford service manual for the torque specs on my '04 Zetec. It shows the correct torque to be 10Nm (89 in-lbs, or 7.4 ft-lbs). And it indicates a tightening pattern working from the center out in a swirl.

Last edited by FocusKnot; 09-29-2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Correction
FocusKnot is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 06:00 PM   #17
makuloco2000
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Fan#: 34231
Location: Illinois
What I Drive: 01' Focus LX

Posts: 96
FF Reputation: 8 makuloco2000 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FocusKnot View Post
Just for grins, I looked in my Ford service manual for the torque specs on my '04 Zetec. It shows the correct torque to be 10Nm (89 in-lbs, or 7.4 ft-lbs). And it indicates a tightening pattern working from the center out in a swirl.
Hey guy this is from the online ford workshop manual we use at the dealership, bet I am still wrong though. This isn't my first year on the job. Or am I reading it wrong?

Install the cylinder head cover and spark plugs.
Tighten the bolts in two stages.
Stage 1: 2 Nm
Stage 2: 7 Nm
Attach the PCV hose.
__________________
Check out all my Ford Tech Repair Videos @
http://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco/videos
Please Subscribe. Always something new and interesting!
makuloco2000 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 06:03 PM   #18
makuloco2000
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Fan#: 34231
Location: Illinois
What I Drive: 01' Focus LX

Posts: 96
FF Reputation: 8 makuloco2000 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by qweesy View Post
As AMC49 said "If the surface scratches you are not using the blade right."

You should NOT use scotchbrite on an open head period unless you are taking it off disassembling and plan on putting it in a wash vat.

Those small particles WILL scar bearing surfaces and WILL wear sooner, this is a "how to" thread you created don't give others bad & wrong information.
You know what you guys are absolutely right! I still would love to see someone at a any kind of pace take a razor blade to and aluminum surface and not leave a trace. Maybe one day I will learn how to use a razor blade............
__________________
Check out all my Ford Tech Repair Videos @
http://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco/videos
Please Subscribe. Always something new and interesting!
makuloco2000 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 07:55 PM   #19
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,501
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
'Hard Steel razor blade on a soft aluminum surface, the soft aluminum will win that everytime...right.'

Aluminum pistons do it millions of times inside iron liners, you don't seem to have a problem with that...........

TECHNIQUE bucko.

Petty? Huh.

You didn't lift a finger to blow off the cover with air, even though dirt, leaves and all else piled on to fall in valvetrain when you remove cover, which, in the video you do by bumping it against the valvetrain to knock stuff loose to fall in motor. You use a single lift-and-away movement there. Oh I know it's not your personal engine!

You clearly do not twist the plug wire heads first to break the rubber loose, it commonly sticks just like the gasket does to head. Simply yanking them often tears the plug wire internally right where it enters the bug rubber head molding since the head is low and gives way, and common human nature is to get more grab instinctively by catching the wire entry up in fingers as well. So, additional spark plug wire sale there, huh. Very common on these engines to do that. Petty?

How many throttle and cruise cables do you sell by lifting them and flopping them around like in vid, they break the crap plastic housing at the end fittings super easy from that type of movement. You disturb them as little as possible, certainly no lifting beyond what you absolutely must to clear cover in/out.

You use what appears to be a towel that could have much lint in it and maybe even garbage, either new and has lint, since it hasn't washed out yet, or old recleaned shop towel-they often have pieces of metal in them. In short you are adding trash not removing it. Wiping off cam lobes? Why, where's the logic in that? Rest assured that until you cracked that cover they were clean. If there can be no scotchbrite damage as claimed then why? Shoulda blown that cover off! If dirty you can clearly see it, if not that is the only oil on them for startup for probably 2-3 seconds, cams will turn a hundred times by then. The proper thing is to OIL them just before throwing cover back on. Hmm, musta missed that in the vid. Dry startup on lobes an excellent idea there, more of the 'let's help wear out engine early so they have to buy another car' mentality they teach at Ford.

Lastly, no mention of people breaking bolts off and why, the big immediate problem after not getting grooves clean enough. Groove not clean=gasket not sealing to leak=overtorquing bolt to stop it=broken bolt.

Petty? I'd rather you call me unimpressed. You gotta do better than that.

And y'all are supposed to be the experts................

Luck with the blue oval.............
amc49 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 07:58 PM   #20
FocusKnot
Focus Enthusiast
 
FocusKnot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Fan#: 117505
Location: Dallas, TX
What I Drive: 2004 Red SE Wagon 2.0 Zetec Auto

Posts: 479
FF Reputation: 3 FocusKnot Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I'm not arguing with you about the torque. It just means Ford changed the spec since producing my service manuals. They went from 10 Nm to 7 Nm. I wonder if valve covers were being crushed or cracked. Hmmm.....

BTW, I always order the factory manuals for a car I purchase even though they are expensive. Usually the very first time I use them to fix something, I have my money back.
FocusKnot is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.