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Old 08-15-2013, 11:40 AM   #11
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and after you factor in the additional cost of the fuel system to pump enough of it and also the fact that you burn more of it you would come out the same or cheaper to just run race fuel anyway. or is my sleep deprived logic way off?
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #12
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Do newer foci's have flex fuel sensors, I know with megasquirt you can tell ethanol content by a flex fuel sensor..can sct do the same?
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:43 PM   #13
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and after you factor in the additional cost of the fuel system to pump enough of it and also the fact that you burn more of it you would come out the same or cheaper to just run race fuel anyway. or is my sleep deprived logic way off?
way off lol especially if you run C16, even at the 100oct price of 7.99 here E85 will pay for itself in the long run and is better then said above.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #14
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wow really? jeeze your stuff is way expensive down there. around here we can get 100oct unleaded from the pump at alot of places for around $5.50-$6 per gallon. 1 place up the road sells 110 for $7.50 per gallon. you gotta drive a little ways to get it and they wont let you pump it directly into the car so you gotta pump it into a container, drive across the street, pour it in your car and come back for more and granted it isnt c16 either. that crap is way up there. like $16 per gallon! but from my stand point paying $2.50-$3 per gallon for a fuel that you burn literally twice as much of makes no sense. but that is just around here i guess. i still cant believe race gas is so expensive for you down there. i guess im just lucky and that makes me really REALLY happy. if fuel really is that ungodly expensive where you're at the i can see how if you plan to make alot of miles on your build the e85 would pay for itself over time. but its still a pain how the quality of the stuff fluctuates. what do you do if you test the octane level of the stuff and you cant run it? wait for another batch or find another station? what if you cant find any stations around with high enough octane rating? there arent that many to pick from around here. nope not for me. i would just stick with the tried and true method of old fashion race gas
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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You don't need twice the fuel.
The volume of fuel vs Gasoline will vary. For instance you can lean burn and use less than if desired. TQ does not drop of nearly as fast as with Gasoline (it does drop though).
WOT you surely use more fuel. But you also have more safety margin IMO. And instead of tuning overly rich with Gasoline to absorb the high heat, Ethanol naturally cools which also means you can lean it out comparatively. Say you have to run 10:1 on Gas; on Corn you might make just as much at 11.5:1. It's something a dyno and logs will tell you. (watch PW's vs TQ)

And, how many stations sell corn at the pump vs race fuel?
The answer to that dictates weather it's a street car or a street driven race car.
If you can't leave the state because you won't be able to get fuel at the pump, it's a racecar.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:43 AM   #16
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true true true

thats why i want to TRY to make my 400+whp on pump gas 93 oct if possible. i will run race fuel in it if i go to the track for added safety but i still want to be able to drive it.

but there is still the problem of having a consistent octane rating with corn. if there was a way to solve that i would run e85 in a heartbeat
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:58 AM   #17
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wow really? jeeze your stuff is way expensive down there. around here we can get 100oct unleaded from the pump at alot of places for around $5.50-$6 per gallon. 1 place up the road sells 110 for $7.50 per gallon. you gotta drive a little ways to get it and they wont let you pump it directly into the car so you gotta pump it into a container, drive across the street, pour it in your car and come back for more and granted it isnt c16 either. that crap is way up there. like $16 per gallon! but from my stand point paying $2.50-$3 per gallon for a fuel that you burn literally twice as much of makes no sense. but that is just around here i guess. i still cant believe race gas is so expensive for you down there. i guess im just lucky and that makes me really REALLY happy. if fuel really is that ungodly expensive where you're at the i can see how if you plan to make alot of miles on your build the e85 would pay for itself over time. but its still a pain how the quality of the stuff fluctuates. what do you do if you test the octane level of the stuff and you cant run it? wait for another batch or find another station? what if you cant find any stations around with high enough octane rating? there arent that many to pick from around here. nope not for me. i would just stick with the tried and true method of old fashion race gas

You will find it doesn't vary as much as you think also say you tune for e85 and you get e70 nothing will happen except the car will run richer but e70 still has the same knock resistance. I suggest you really do your homework on this. Ive done tremendous amounts of research. I run it full time in my 2012 mustang and as you guys know thats a 7500.00 engine that i do not want to blow up. Its been on e85 for 5 months now. my buddy been on it for 15k miles. My mpg only dropped 3mpg around town and 2-3 on the highway.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:27 PM   #18
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For purposes of this post "r+m/2" will be refered to as the pump rating since we only have MON at the pump now and not the pump rating like we do with "pump" gas.

129 RON + 116 MON / 2 = 122.5 Pump rating for pure ethanol alcohol

122.5 r+m/2 @ 85% + 87 r+m/2 @ 15% (or 8.5 gallons to 1.5 gallons) would be 117.17 r+m/2 for E85. Now switching this to E70 (or 7g and 3g) would drop this (using the same values) to 111.85 r+m/2.

This assumes that the RON and MON ratings provided by that Wiki are correct, or the ones given that say 113 are incorrect. Which in my opinion is pure crap and all based on the the manufacturer of the e85 uses 87 octane fuel as the start blend ????

Saying that , e85 to e70 would be a 6 point octane drop, So how can you say "e70 still has the same knock resistance." A 6 point drop in octane wouldnt have the same knock resistance
You mustang has the copperhead ECU no ? that adjust the air fuel for the octane your running and your knock sensor can adjust the spark as needed so I can see how you would say you cannot tell anything , I wouldnt use that as a blanket statement for the Focus or all cars

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Old 08-23-2013, 06:52 AM   #19
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For purposes of this post "r+m/2" will be refered to as the pump rating since we only have MON at the pump now and not the pump rating like we do with "pump" gas.

129 RON + 116 MON / 2 = 122.5 Pump rating for pure ethanol alcohol

122.5 r+m/2 @ 85% + 87 r+m/2 @ 15% (or 8.5 gallons to 1.5 gallons) would be 117.17 r+m/2 for E85. Now switching this to E70 (or 7g and 3g) would drop this (using the same values) to 111.85 r+m/2.

This assumes that the RON and MON ratings provided by that Wiki are correct, or the ones given that say 113 are incorrect. Which in my opinion is pure crap and all based on the the manufacturer of the e85 uses 87 octane fuel as the start blend ????

Saying that , e85 to e70 would be a 6 point octane drop, So how can you say "e70 still has the same knock resistance." A 6 point drop in octane wouldnt have the same knock resistance
You mustang has the copperhead ECU no ? that adjust the air fuel for the octane your running and your knock sensor can adjust the spark as needed so I can see how you would say you cannot tell anything , I wouldnt use that as a blanket statement for the Focus or all cars

Tom
Thats the wrong equation when going about E85. let me see if I can find you the right one. I have everything saved on my tuning computer. there have been multiple test on e70-e85. the worse thing that happens is when you tune for e85 and get e99 it will then go lean.

But to answer your question with the right formula there is only a 1-2 point drop from e85 to e70 and the AFR go richer which is where you get your safety back into the equation. The guys over at whipple, Lund racing, and JPC racign have done alot of testing for us and Im almost positive i have all of the hard data saved. But yes I do have a great ecu that can adjust if need be, but there also plenty of ppl who dont have a ecu like mine that have the same result.

E85 is the most mis guided fuel out there, many ppl think its just like gas besides the low stoich, when thats just not true. this is why I believe there are so many myths that go around.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:50 AM   #20
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Maybe e85 should be an episode of mythbusters???
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