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Old 08-13-2013, 05:44 AM   #21
mr_cassandra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
There are no known issues with the DCT "gearbox".

Virtually all DCT issues involve the (dry) clutches, which are outside of the "gearbox" (just as a conventional manual transmission).
For that reason, an oil cooler will not help.

Whether or not one wants to consider the (external) clutch assembly as part of the transmission is a matter of semantics.

If my car has a manual transmission with a fried clutch, I wouldn't say that the transmission is screwed up.
good point, when the clutches are running well, this is an aggressive and slick gearbox.

(not that the clutches run well often)
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
Gkirk, all my symptoms disappeared last winter here in new England , then re-appeared when hot weather returned. I suspect heat IS involved but also other factors like the extra load the AC puts on the engine. Same thing for extra passengers (weight). Ford tells us the computer learns for the first three days after a reset, well most of us it would probably be learning in the month we bought it (February in new England) and usually with no passengers.
Poster RSnow above suggests new software updates basically turn off the adaptive learning process. It would be ironic if what is presumably sophisticated programming intended to give us the absolute best driving experience is also the reason so many DCTs seem to struggle and is better of "off"?
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:45 AM   #23
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Transmissions typically include a transmission fluid which is recycled throughout the transmission. Wet clutches generally provide greater heat transfer and temperature control than dry clutches. Wet clutches also, however, have a lower coefficient of friction than dry clutches. Wet clutches are further known to slip pre-engagement.

Dry clutches tend to provide higher coefficients of friction than wet clutches. Dry clutches can provide lower costs and complexity. Still, dry clutches can have thermal management issues. For example, dry clutches can reach higher temperatures in repeat vehicle launch events with heavy vehicle load and road grade conditions. Some existing designs have attempted to reduce transmission heating in wet clutch transmission. U.S. Pat. No. 6,568,518 titled “Clutch for a Power Train of a Motor Vehicle” discloses a clutch having fan blades configured to generate an air stream over the surface of the flywheel. The blades disclosed are flowing in a single direction which produces a relatively undisturbed fluid flow path. A more viscous flow would yield greater heat transfer.

Therefore, it is desirable to have a dry-clutch transmission with improved heat transfer techniques.

REFERENCED BY
Citing Patent Filing date Publication date Applicant Title
US20120123635 * Nov 16, 2010 May 17, 2012 Ford Global Technologies Llc Powertrain thermal management system for a dry-clutch transmission
http://www.google.com/patents/US20120080287
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
Ford tells us the computer learns for the first three days after a reset, well most of us it would probably be learning in the month we bought it (February in new England) and usually with no passengers.
What they are essentially saying is that the learning process may take a few days (more or less depending upon the type of driving). They are not saying that the TCM stops "learning".

If you think about it, the TCM does not stop "learning" for one very obvious reason: Clutches do wear.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
What they are essentially saying is that the learning process may take a few days (more or less depending upon the type of driving). They are not saying that the TCM stops "learning".

If you think about it, the TCM does not stop "learning" for one very obvious reason: Clutches do wear.
doesn't matter how they spin it, its a bad execution of a good idea. My VW GTI didn't do any of these shenanigans, nor did Audis I have driven with dual clutch transmissions.
They can spin all the memos they want, but for a certain percent of owners, it just plain runs bad.
Edmunds and lemon law blog have plenty more complaints to add to the hundreds you can read here at these forums.
I have the highest regard for the ford CS reps like Crystal but hold little long term hope for the focus DCT. Imo it is a national recall waiting to happen.
I bit the bullet, lost $1,500 and bought another brand and all my heartache is gone, I enjoy every drive to anywhere, short or long distance. No longer do my passengers ask whats wrong when the car shifts.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhiaFan View Post
Transmissions typically include a transmission fluid which is recycled throughout the transmission. Wet clutches generally provide greater heat transfer and temperature control than dry clutches. Wet clutches also, however, have a lower coefficient of friction than dry clutches. Wet clutches are further known to slip pre-engagement.

Dry clutches tend to provide higher coefficients of friction than wet clutches. Dry clutches can provide lower costs and complexity. Still, dry clutches can have thermal management issues. For example, dry clutches can reach higher temperatures in repeat vehicle launch events with heavy vehicle load and road grade conditions. Some existing designs have attempted to reduce transmission heating in wet clutch transmission. U.S. Pat. No. 6,568,518 titled “Clutch for a Power Train of a Motor Vehicle” discloses a clutch having fan blades configured to generate an air stream over the surface of the flywheel. The blades disclosed are flowing in a single direction which produces a relatively undisturbed fluid flow path. A more viscous flow would yield greater heat transfer.

Therefore, it is desirable to have a dry-clutch transmission with improved heat transfer techniques.

REFERENCED BY
Citing Patent Filing date Publication date Applicant Title
US20120123635 * Nov 16, 2010 May 17, 2012 Ford Global Technologies Llc Powertrain thermal management system for a dry-clutch transmission
http://www.google.com/patents/US20120080287
Ghia, this board has many, many posts where Ford was convinced to tear apart the transmission and replace various parts like clutches, seals, throwout bearings etc. The owners saw most if not all of their symptoms go away. Many of these symptoms are the same ones the memo says are "normal".

If the memo is right, how can these symptoms go away ?
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
doesn't matter how they spin it, its a bad execution of a good idea. My VW GTI didn't do any of these shenanigans, nor did Audis I have driven with dual clutch transmissions.
They can spin all the memos they want, but for a certain percent of owners, it just plain runs bad.
Edmunds and lemon law blog have plenty more complaints to add to the hundreds you can read here at these forums.
I have the highest regard for the ford CS reps like Crystal but hold little long term hope for the focus DCT. Imo it is a national recall waiting to happen.
I bit the bullet, lost $1,500 and bought another brand and all my heartache is gone, I enjoy every drive to anywhere, short or long distance. No longer do my passengers ask whats wrong when the car shifts.
As I pointed out to you on the edmunds forum, VW has PLENTY of complaints for the DSG. Just check out the complaints section of its wikipedia page. Tens of thousands of recalls in foreign countries, most notably China. The DSG may have an overall lower complaint rate now then the DCT primarily because it's had 10 years to be refined. Ford's dry clutch DCT by contrast just went into production in, what, 2010 in the Fiesta?
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:38 PM   #28
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The reliability record of the VW Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) is taking a hit with a great deal of reports coming in from around the world for not behaving like they should, and dealers refusing to come up with a viable fix.

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/05/vw-...-in-japan.html
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
What they are essentially saying is that the learning process may take a few days (more or less depending upon the type of driving). They are not saying that the TCM stops "learning".

If you think about it, the TCM does not stop "learning" for one very obvious reason: Clutches do wear.
I was thinking further about your post on the learning process and all I can say is it sure didn't learn well when I added AC on to the equation and extra passengers.

But in the cold new England winter, it ran fine, with none of the syptoms we are told are "normal"
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
The reliability record of the VW Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) is taking a hit with a great deal of reports coming in from around the world for not behaving like they should, and dealers refusing to come up with a viable fix.

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/05/vw-...-in-japan.html
I only owned one, and drive two others so that's not a firm proof of anything, but as I read your post(s) , you may be driving home a larger point about ALL such transmissions.

The Nissan GTR is said to be VERY jerky at low speeds.
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