01 Wagon cooling fan resistor question... - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #1
HenryTS77
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Fan#: 112051
Location: Syracuse, NY
What I Drive: 2001 Black Focus SE Wagon

Posts: 13
FF Reputation: 1 HenryTS77 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Question 01 Wagon cooling fan resistor question...

Before anyone says - oh no another overheating thread - please read on. Yes - my Focus Wagon is overheating and I have read many of the threads and am working through it but this post is specifically about the low speed fan resistor. I checked the actual motor by applying power and it runs. I pulled the resistor assembly and the connectors and wiring all look fine-no burnt/melted areas. The resistor cage is rusted/corroded but the main resistor (the coiled metal part) looks fine but there is what may be a diode across the resistor ( hard to tell as it is not in good shape)-unfortunately I do not have a wiring diagram or I would be able to tell what it is. I checked resistance across the resistor terminals and it read about .25 ohms both ways ( just in case it was a diode in there) . I have seen the suggestion to just go ahead and replace the resistor but at $40 plus a piece ( locally) and me being out of work I can't afford just to throw parts at it so I would like to know what the other part in the resistor cage is and what is it's it function is and would that parts failure prevent the fan from running ? I can't do the check where I turn the AC on to see if both fans run as the system is low on refrigerant so the AC won't engage to turn the fans on. Any and all info would be appreciated.



Last edited by HenryTS77; 07-22-2013 at 09:08 PM.
HenryTS77 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-22-2013, 08:38 PM   #2
Marde
Focus Addict
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 1,308
Points 1,585, Level 22
Points: 1,585, Level: 22 Points: 1,585, Level: 22 Points: 1,585, Level: 22
Level Up 85% Completed
Level up: 85% Level up: 85% Level up: 85%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 11 Marde Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I cannot help much, but will show you what I found.
First off, the wire diagram is for a 2002. Your post says “02” but your handle says What I Drive – 2001. So which is it? 2001 or 2002?
I am unsure “what the other part in the resistor cage is”. All I see in the diagram is a thermal resistor (in my secret helicopter world we call them thermistors) Yes, if that thermal resistor is not working properly, the Fans can either work too little, too much or not at all.
The only diode I see is located inside the Battery Junction Box.
I see two relays that might be exact duplicate parts. You might consider swapping the Engine Cooling Fan Relay with the High Speed Engine Cooling Fan Relay. A game I call swaptronics.
Sorry the picture looks bad, it also looks bad right off the webpage where I found it ->
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36638561/Ford-Focus-2002
Go to that website and find the Cooling Fan with AC non SVT diagram and right-click and download it onto your PC for a better view.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2002 Cooling Fans with AC 19-4356a7cc70.jpg
Views:	198
Size:	158.7 KB
ID:	18778  

Marde is online now  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2013, 10:12 PM   #3
my_beautious_ZX3
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Fan#: 32386
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: 2002 charcoal XZ3

Posts: 746
Points 1,342, Level 20
Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20
Level Up 43% Completed
Level up: 43% Level up: 43% Level up: 43%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 5 my_beautious_ZX3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Oh no! Another overheating thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryTS77 View Post
The resistor cage is rusted/corroded but the main resistor (the coiled metal part) looks fine but there is what may be a diode across the resistor ( hard to tell as it is not in good shape)
what do you mean by that? Can you take a close-up photo of it?


Quote:
I checked resistance across the resistor terminals and it read about .25 ohms both ways
that seems to jibe with what other forum members reported (although mine looks fine and measures about 3 ohms). See post #6 of this thread:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264211

and post #1 of this thread:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249537
__________________
"I'm jealous of girls because they get to wear dresses." (Todd Flanders)
my_beautious_ZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2013, 10:28 PM   #4
HenryTS77
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Fan#: 112051
Location: Syracuse, NY
What I Drive: 2001 Black Focus SE Wagon

Posts: 13
FF Reputation: 1 HenryTS77 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Thanks for the reply Marde- OOOPS about the 02 year part - I have since fixed it. I will try and take pictures of the resistor unit after I take it back out tomorrow but the best way I can describe it is the cage contains contains what those into older electronics would be considered an air wound coil with what I thought was was a diode across it but may very well could have been a thermistor to vary the resistance of the resistor pack depending on temperature. I did try and download the diagrams from the site you gave me but it said I needed a subscription so I will try to enlarge the on-screen prints tomorrow.
HenryTS77 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2013, 10:38 PM   #5
my_beautious_ZX3
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Fan#: 32386
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: 2002 charcoal XZ3

Posts: 746
Points 1,342, Level 20
Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20
Level Up 43% Completed
Level up: 43% Level up: 43% Level up: 43%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 5 my_beautious_ZX3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I'm familiar with the part, so my question was really about your text that I highlighted in bold font...are you saying that the mystery diode/thermistor is burned up or just surface corroded? The latter is normal and if moderate then probably wouldn't cause it to fail.
__________________
"I'm jealous of girls because they get to wear dresses." (Todd Flanders)
my_beautious_ZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2013, 12:50 AM   #6
Marde
Focus Addict
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 1,308
Points 1,585, Level 22
Points: 1,585, Level: 22 Points: 1,585, Level: 22 Points: 1,585, Level: 22
Level Up 85% Completed
Level up: 85% Level up: 85% Level up: 85%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 11 Marde Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Henry,
I was not using the DOWNLOAD buttons at that website. Find the diagram you need and single left click on the image, and then single right-click on the image and select “save image as” and save it onto your computer as JPEG image.

The resulting image is a little blurry, but it is read-able enough to use. Sorry it is a 2002 and not your 2001. Good enuf to work with but not bet with.
Marde is online now  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2013, 06:06 AM   #7
whynotthinkwhynot
Captain TMI
 
whynotthinkwhynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 18416
Location: the armpit of TN, Memphis, TN
What I Drive: 05 Focus Wagon; 13 C-Max SEL

Posts: 20,273
Points 27,561, Level 98
Points: 27,561, Level: 98 Points: 27,561, Level: 98 Points: 27,561, Level: 98
Level Up 22% Completed
Level up: 22% Level up: 22% Level up: 22%
Forum Activity 11%
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
FF Reputation: 270 whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
You can bypass the low pressure switch on the AC in order to make the fans run, you can also bridge the output of the low speed relay and high speed relay so that the fan will run in high speed when low speed is called for. These are inexpensive methods of fixing the bad resistor.

To bypass the low pressure switch: first unplug the AC compressor clutch so it won't run. Second, find the low pressure switch which is located on the accumulator under the passenger fender. You will have to jack the vehicle, pull the tire, and the inner fender plastic. Unplug the switch, and bridge the 2 points on the switch plug with some solid wire. Tape to hold in place. Now the fan should come on when the AC button is pushed.

To bridge the relays you will need to remove the underhood fuse box so that you can get to the bottom side of it. This is the best place to do this, but you could also do it at the fan resistor plug-in. I would bridge the coil wires. Look at the wiring diagram on the side of one of the relays. You'll see two wires at the points of what is drawn as a box with a line through it- that is the magnetic coil for the relay. IIRC these are 85 and 86. Flip the relay over, and you will see numbers beside the pins. Now unbolt the relay box, and look for the corresponding wires for that relay under the box. You should only see one wire- the other is a ground and is wired internally. Tie the wire from the low speed fan to the high speed fan. This can also be done with very small gauge wire from the top with both relays removed- but then I don't know which point is ground and which point is hot. You don't want to tie a hot to a ground or there will be a blown fuse which could take out all the relays bringing the car to a halt. You will have to use wire small enough to be able to re-insert the relay. Do not use this method to tie the output wires together- those are high current, and using a small enough wire to allow the relay to be pushed down will cause excess heat and damage the relays or the box.

You can do this at the fan resistor plug. One hot goes through the resistor for the low speed, and the other hot goes straight through to the fans for high speed. Tie those 2 wires together, and you've bridged the outputs. Now the fan will operate on high speed when low speed is called for. No damage or over current situation will occur, you just simply won't have a low speed, and you won't be running the fan continuously like some goofball who installed a switch in place of the controls Ford uses.

The fan resistor is $45, and that fixes the problem also. I'd have to look into your overheating threads to figure out if this is causing your overheating. Engine cooling fan problems only cause overheating in stop and go traffic, and low speed traffic below 45 mph or so. Above those speeds, the fans don't operate or do anything anyway because there is plenty of air being forced through the radiator by simply moving. If you are overheating on the highway, then you have another cooling problem not related to the fans.
__________________
Be eclectic.
---The Complete How-To Archive--

Moderating everything now, let me know if I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the user formerly known as ZX3_Chick View Post
You're special aren't you.
whynotthinkwhynot is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2013, 10:22 AM   #8
my_beautious_ZX3
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Fan#: 32386
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: 2002 charcoal XZ3

Posts: 746
Points 1,342, Level 20
Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20 Points: 1,342, Level: 20
Level Up 43% Completed
Level up: 43% Level up: 43% Level up: 43%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 5 my_beautious_ZX3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot View Post
No damage or over current situation will occur, you just simply won't have a low speed
the low-speed circuit is protected by a 30-amp fuse, while its high-speed counterpart has a 50-amp fuse. Bypassing the current-limiting resistor in the low-speed circuit will cause the fans to draw their full potential (~50 amps), thus blowing the 30-amp fuse.
__________________
"I'm jealous of girls because they get to wear dresses." (Todd Flanders)
my_beautious_ZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #9
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 5,567
Points 3,212, Level 35
Points: 3,212, Level: 35 Points: 3,212, Level: 35 Points: 3,212, Level: 35
Level Up 8% Completed
Level up: 8% Level up: 8% Level up: 8%
Forum Activity 60%
Activity: 60% Activity: 60% Activity: 60%
FF Reputation: 25 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
To HenryTS.

The diode looking part IS the thermal limiter, if truly getting less than one ohm across connectors the part IS GOOD. You will get infinity if it is melted open inside. Thermal is supposed to save the plug connection but rarely works, the plug melts instead. Thermal limiter merely sits there until melting time and affects resistor coil in no way.

Stick part back in there and use it.

I rebuilt my melted resistor and used the same air coil but ditched the thermal, it works fine. No need for the thermal if it's not going to work anyway. Made up positive screw connectors with nut and bolt to spread temp absorption a bit. Bigger connectors too.

X2, my_beautious, the fuse should pop-

this is incorrect..............

'No damage or over current situation will occur'

If someone ties those two wires together by simply snapping a quick connect double ended male spade in between them to preserve wires till buying a new resistor, I can practically guarantee some melting there. Those two spades are much smaller than any others used in the system, why they melt at 30 amp power all the time. Going to 50 amp will be melt city. Look at all the other fan wiring connectors used, they are much bigger than those two, engineering messed up there.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2013, 05:07 PM   #10
HenryTS77
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Fan#: 112051
Location: Syracuse, NY
What I Drive: 2001 Black Focus SE Wagon

Posts: 13
FF Reputation: 1 HenryTS77 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
I cannot help much, but will show you what I found.
First off, the wire diagram is for a 2002. Your post says “02” but your handle says What I Drive – 2001. So which is it? 2001 or 2002?
I am unsure “what the other part in the resistor cage is”. All I see in the diagram is a thermal resistor (in my secret helicopter world we call them thermistors) Yes, if that thermal resistor is not working properly, the Fans can either work too little, too much or not at all.
The only diode I see is located inside the Battery Junction Box.
I see two relays that might be exact duplicate parts. You might consider swapping the Engine Cooling Fan Relay with the High Speed Engine Cooling Fan Relay. A game I call swaptronics.
Sorry the picture looks bad, it also looks bad right off the webpage where I found it ->
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36638561/Ford-Focus-2002
Go to that website and find the Cooling Fan with AC non SVT diagram and right-click and download it onto your PC for a better view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
Henry,
I was not using the DOWNLOAD buttons at that website. Find the diagram you need and single left click on the image, and then single right-click on the image and select “save image as” and save it onto your computer as JPEG image.

The resulting image is a little blurry, but it is read-able enough to use. Sorry it is a 2002 and not your 2001. Good enuf to work with but not bet with.

Thanks Marde - using your info I was actually able to find a PDF on a Ford site in Europe and the diagrams look exactly like the site you posted but far more readable and will come in handy in my quest. Yes- they are for a 2002 but it should be close enough and I know the 2001 and 2002 use the same resistor for the fan which is why I find it strange that the diagram does not show the thermal limiter (as someone pointed out). Here is the link to the PDF as it may prove useful to others for others also:


http://www.fordclub.eu/graphics/manu...focus_2002.pdf
HenryTS77 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat