02 SE Won't start! Please Help!! - Page 5 - Focus Fanatics
Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forums
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace



Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2013, 09:23 AM   #41
TiIngot
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fan#: 110130
Location: Youngstown, OH
What I Drive: 1996 Corvette LT4 Convertible

Posts: 43
FF Reputation: 3 TiIngot Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
OK Ashleigh, sorry I have not been on line for a while and missed your question about WHAT the starter switch is. Actually I don't think your problem is the same as my daughters (located inside the steering colums) because of the year and model involved. I have observed her situation is '07 and '08 models only.

However I will again explain her problem. On occasion she would turn the key and no sound other than the fuel pump. Keep turning the key back and forth and hers would srart normally. Over time it grew worse until turning the key repeatedly and it would not start at all.

Her problem was the steering column linkage between the starter switch located inside the left side of the steering column (below the turn signal lever) and the keyed ignition switch on the right.

If Ford has not revised the design from 2007, to diagnose if it is the steering column linkage you open up the steering column covers and unclip and remove the plastic starter switch located inside the left side of the steering column. Leave all the wires plugged into the starter switch. Put the key into the ignition switch on the right side and turn it to the run (not start) position. Go back to the starter switch you removed on the left side of the column and insert a screw driver into the slot and turn it hard. It is spring loaded and the screw driver is now acting as your key. If it starts you know your problem is the linkage part inside the steering column.

This piece can be replaced without removing the steering wheel and air bags if necessary. Again, because your situation happened quickly I don't believe this is your situation but stanger things have happened.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309714

If necessary open and read the link printed above see everything I went through on my daughters '07.

One more thing, while the steering column is open you can buy a started switch and remove your old one, plug in the new one and use the screw driver on the new starter switch. If it works and the car starts then it was the old starter switch that went bad. I was able to return to Auto Zone the new switch I bought because I did not need it.

Good luck.
TiIngot is offline  
   
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #42
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 3,525
FF Reputation: 19 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
If you go to parts house looking for that 'starter switch' they are going to come up empty handed, it is the IGNITION SWITCH. There is a separate starter relay in the pass fusebox. There is another relay or solenoid on top of starter, all three are technically starter switches, the trans range sensor could be called one too.

You'd think you'd hear a click but not always. If motor locked up and starter toasts just right then solenoid contacts can weld and stick and then current burns through wire partially to make an internal technical open in starter, your no click situation. Your power then no power thing too. Real longshot but entirely possible. I've seen it. I've also seen starters that working correctly made virtually no click at all. Depends on contact clearance space inside solenoid, more space=louder click. Battery cable condition has much to do with it too, indeed all of this may be cable alone.

Easiest way to check starting circuit is to wire a jumper to the small terminal of starter and then jump it to positive post of battery, if starter pulls up then issues with starting circuit. No need for unnecessary testing and all the possible errors that way. Five page post now and still no resolution, incredible.........

'Can you possibly give me a list of all the connections that I should check?'

And now she wants you to write a book again. Never mind you'll have hell getting responses back on what happened with the testing. Half my questions never got answered. You guys got it, I'm outta here..........................at our shop this would've been a very high maintenance customer. Or one you lose money on every time you see them.
amc49 is offline  
   
Old 07-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #43
Desperate_Ashleigh
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Fan#: 116332
Location: Auburn, WA
What I Drive: 2002 Blue SE Comfort

Posts: 30
FF Reputation: 1 Desperate_Ashleigh Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
amc49 you are an extremely rude person. You asked five hundred different questions so I'm sorry if I didn't answer them all. I have told you half a dozen times that I don't know much about cars. Not all of us know how to fix everything.
I'm not trying to be high maintenance or anything of the sort. I am simply asking for help. I'm glad you are leaving this thread because honestly all you have done is be a jerk.
If I could afford a shop I would just take it in and let the shop fix it without saying anything to them so since you don't actually know me as a person or anything you can shut up. Oh and find something better to do than attack a disabled woman over the internet just because she doesn't know what you are talking about.
Desperate_Ashleigh is offline  
   
Old 07-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #44
freemind
Vince your Moderator
 
freemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Fan#: 67513
Location: Seattle, WA
What I Drive: 2002 ZX3 and a 2010 Focus SE (Work)

Posts: 3,612
FF Reputation: 20 freemind Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (17)
Who is Checking all of this for you Ash?

I realize that your frustration level is going through the roof. But I feel that, others are as well. In the big picture, they(we)are just trying to help.
__________________
133whp-126ftlbsTQ Eclipse CD8443,Eclipse PA5422, JBL GTO751EZ, PPI 356cs(A/D/S), JBL p1024, SubThump enclosure, RAAmat BXT, Damplifier Pro

Hatch Nation #140
Caeci caecos ducentes
freemind is offline  
   
Old 07-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #45
Marde
Focus Enthusiast
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 402
FF Reputation: 7 Marde Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate_Ashleigh View Post
The weirdest part about it is that when the car is off I get voltage at the starter but the moment you try to start the car the voltage disappears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
The OP has stated that 12Vdc is disappearing on terminal-1 and this cannot happen unless the circuit is “opened” by a fuse (there is none!?) or by a defective/faulty connection while under load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot View Post

1) Got 12v, goes to 0 under load, yeah loose connection every time.
Ashleigh,

I use the terms Terminal-1 and Terminal-2 (both located on the Starter) based on what is shown in the wire diagram on page-3.

Please re-run this test and make sure you are doing it exactly this way ->

1- Connect the black mutimeter lead onto the car battery negative terminal. Do not use the car frame or engine block as a ground for the multimeter.
2- Connect the red multimeter lead onto the Starter at terminal-1 (the terminal with largest red wire).
3- Multimeter should read ~12Vdc with the car keys in your pocket.
4- With the multimeter still connected, start the car (hold the key in Start position for 3 seconds) and watch what the multimeter does. Please reply with results of this test.
5- If the multimeter indicates that the 12Vdc disappers during engine start, your problem is (very likely) the Red cable that connects the Battery to the Starter at terminal-1. Remove/inspect/clean the cable/connections or Replace this cable with a new one.

If the voltage is not disappearing (a minor voltage drop is OK) your problem is likely a bad ground cable. To confirm this re-run the test above and make these changes;

1- Leave the multimeter red test lead on Terminal-1 (on Starter).
2- Move the multimeter black test lead to the car frame (same spot that the battery negative cable connects to).
3- Re-run test.
4- If the multimeter indicates that the 12Vdc disappers during engine start, your problem is (very likely) the cable that connects the battery to the car frame.

If the voltage is not disappearing (a minor voltage drop is OK) your problem is (still) likely a bad ground cable. The ground cable that connects the engine to the car frame is now suspected. To confirm this re-run the test above and make these changes;

1- Leave the multimeter red test lead on Terminal-1 (on Starter).
2- Move the multimeter black test lead from the car frame to the engine block, finding a good ground on the engine block might be tricky, try multiple spots, do you see an big metal Eyelet used for lifting the engine? That should work.
3- Re-run test.
4- If the multimeter indicates that the 12Vdc disappers during engine start, your problem is (very likely) the cable that connects the engine to the car frame.

If the voltage is not disappearing (a minor voltage drop is OK) your problem is likely a bad Starter or the Starter is not grounded to the engine block... or that we are chasing our tail because the "control circuit" might be the bad guy... read on...

Your previous report that the voltage was disappearing during start allows me to safely assume that your car start “control circuit” is working ok. If for some reason you want to test the control circuit, you can do what I said before on page-3 or 4. Using what you have learned in the Tests above, perform a similar (single) test by placing the multimeter black lead on the car battery, and the multimeter red test lead on Terminal-2 of the Starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
There are two posts/terminals on the starter (see diagram on page-3). Terminal-1 on the starter is always Hot (12Vdc) because it is directly connected to the battery with a heavy gauge wire/cable. If this cable or the connections are corroded (faulty connection) it might cause your No Start problem. Amc49 previously identified this cable as a known problem for other Focus owners. The other terminal on the starter is terminal-2. Terminal-2 is always cold except for a few seconds during the engine start sequence (when the engine is cranking). If all of the wiring, switches and relays are working properly, terminal-2 should be 12Vdc only when the car key is advanced to Start. If you take the time to connect the multimeter to terminal-2 and “see” the 12Vdc hit during engine start/crank, you will know that most of the (control side) wiring, switches and relays are working properly.
Marde is offline  
   
Old 07-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #46
FocusGhia
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94579
Location: Blyth, United Kingdom
What I Drive: 2001 Ghia 1.6

Posts: 253
FF Reputation: 3 FocusGhia Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Google " focaljet car won't start"

Along with following Marde's last post
FocusGhia is offline  
   
Old 07-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #47
Desperate_Ashleigh
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Fan#: 116332
Location: Auburn, WA
What I Drive: 2002 Blue SE Comfort

Posts: 30
FF Reputation: 1 Desperate_Ashleigh Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I have had a couple of friends who were helping me when this problem first came up but all of them have stopped helping completely so it's me doing all of this work whenever I have a little bit of energy.
Marde I will do that testing as soon as I am home from one of my many doctor appointments this afternoon.
Thank you very much you have been very helpful.
Desperate_Ashleigh is offline  
   
Old 07-23-2013, 11:46 PM   #48
Desperate_Ashleigh
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Fan#: 116332
Location: Auburn, WA
What I Drive: 2002 Blue SE Comfort

Posts: 30
FF Reputation: 1 Desperate_Ashleigh Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Alright! Time for an update! We ran the first two tests and it came back normal. We did the third test and the voltage dropped to zero. Tomorrow I am going to go get a new one and try to figure out where the hell that stupid cable goes to.
Desperate_Ashleigh is offline  
   
Old 07-24-2013, 11:28 AM   #49
Marde
Focus Enthusiast
 
Marde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115991
Location: Mesa, AZ
What I Drive: 2004 ZTW PZEV 2.3 ATX

Posts: 402
FF Reputation: 7 Marde Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Glad to hear you have made some progress. You were not entirely clear on your update, but I think you were saying that the “disappearing voltage” problem showed up when you moved the multimeter black test lead to the engine block, correct? As a reminder, you needed to have 12Vdc on the multimeter BEFORE you tried to start the car. Having 12Vdc on the multimeter before you start the car confirms that your multimeter black test lead has found a good ground spot on the engine block. Sounds like you have isolated the problem to be a bad ground cable that (should be) grounding the engine block to the car frame. Like we have suspected and discussed several times in this thread, the electrical ground is present and functional only for the multimeter, but the ground is non-functional (faulty connection) during the high-current demand of the Starter.

You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate_Ashleigh View Post
Tomorrow I am going to go get a new one… <snip>
A new what? A new ground cable? Before buying a new ground cable, you should find the 2 connection points of this ground cable and disconnect/inspect/clean/reconnect them first.

If you have a bad ground cable… you are not required to fix or replace the existing ground cable. You can install you own “home made” ground cable, as long as it is the proper gauge and that it connects the engine block to the car frame –or- it can be connected directly to the negative terminal on the car battery.

Last edited by Marde; 07-24-2013 at 11:56 AM. Reason: added note about "home made" cable
Marde is offline  
   
Old 07-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #50
Desperate_Ashleigh
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Fan#: 116332
Location: Auburn, WA
What I Drive: 2002 Blue SE Comfort

Posts: 30
FF Reputation: 1 Desperate_Ashleigh Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I was going to clean the ground cable but I couldn't physically get to it in the stop that it is at so I got a new one since it was only 8$ but it turns out this isn't the only problem....
It is officially my 22nd birthday and I still don't have a running car... Stupid.
Now to check the ground to the starter and if that isn't it than take the starter out itself and get it tested after the billionth one.
Desperate_Ashleigh is offline  
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.