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Old 07-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
Raceline offers a 5qt wet sump pan too. However, I'm not sure how well it will work in transverse applications, since its really intended for longitudinal applications.

I would think the D20 pan would suit you just fine. It's uncommon for inline engines to have significant oil drain back problems, so they aren't as likely to have oil starvation even under typical 'high performance' type driving. I would be very surprised if it was an issue at an autox, especially if on street tires.

Can you point me to more information and pictures showing the differences between the two pans? I'm not sure how the D20 vs D23 pan might affect my initial use of the engine, but it's possible that a D23 pan might also be able to suit my needs until I get my hands on a proper longitudinal (Raceline, or similar designed sheet metal) pan for my D20. Do they use the same pickup?
The Raceline I was thinking of is FD654A http://Burtonpower.com
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #12
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Hey Garth, One more thing= Checkout what takes out a lot of 23's= Lack of oil. Ask Ric aka BertsST. Ran low on oil & took out the rod bearings.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:37 AM   #13
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Bruce, with a strange noise and fearing the worst, that's why the pan was off an fresh rod bearings are now in. Old bearings were in pretty good shape. Yay. Also a good excuse to do the BSD.

My engine doesn't use any oil in normal operation, and I check to see it's topped up. As for starvation with a full sump, I'm wondering if this will be a problem, even in auto-x. I can see a 7000 rpm long fast sweeper being the worst case scenario for starvation and something I'm very unlikely to be doing.

Thinking again, maybe during high sustained RPM and lateral G's, seems a baffle would do little good as the area around the pump would be sucked dry. Seems a baffle is best to reduce sloshing, not sustained 1G cornering. Please let me know if I'm wrong on this.

The 2.3 pan is flatter than the 2.0 pan. With the 2.3 pan the oil can slosh side to side more than the 2.0 pan. Think of it this way, (exaggerated for demonstration purposes) if the oil pick-up is in the middle, the oil can slosh away from a flat baking pan (2.3) vs. a more funnel shape (2.0). A pan that keeps the oil near the pick-up is better than a larger flatter pan that allows the oil to slosh away from the pickup.

So there are two issues discussed here:
1) Sheer volume of the pan.
2) Ability of the pan shape to keep oil near the pickup.

I seem to think that #2 is more important. Additional volume might be most useful with a larger filter and/or an oil cooler.

Splitting hairs? Overthinking?
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:01 AM   #14
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While it would cost a little money and a bit of time, with access to both pans, you could test your hypothesis easily enough in your garage. Basically you just need a way to measure the angle each can be tipped to before the pickup tube would be exposed to air.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #15
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Driven5, nothing like empirical evidence!

The available volume of oil to the pickup at various angles will be interesting to measure. I would assume a fluid during a 1G turn should measure 45 degrees. Not accounting for sloshing, of course.

Questions: How much oil is pumped at 7000rpm at pressure and not returned via the bypass? Or, what is the critical volume needed at 1G?
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:34 PM   #16
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Hold everything! This swap just got more complicated. I found a thread I hadn't seen on previous searches. See below from megax36 in December 2011:

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...t=rod+bearings

"I had heard that there was some benefit to the D20's oil pan because it had a better baffle for those who have removed the D23's balance shafts. However I have found that this can't be done unless you swap the oil pump. The pickup tubes are different which prevents you from swaping the pans, and the bolt holes on the D23 oil pump are spaced further apart which prevents you from swaping the tubes.

…the D23 pickup will prevent you from being able to raise the pan all the way up…You can probably use the D23 oil pan on a D20 engine, but not the other way around. The D20 pickup tube may work with either pan but the D23 pickup will only work with the D23 pan."

I'll not be making a custom pickup tube, so a D23 pan baffle it is. Time to cut aluminum. Megax36 also has good pix of both pans and both pickups if anyone is interested.

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Old 07-03-2013, 01:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bones33 View Post
Questions: How much oil is pumped at 7000rpm at pressure and not returned via the bypass? Or, what is the critical volume needed at 1G?
I doubt if anybody with access to that kind of information is at liberty to share it. However, if you assume the same amount of oil flowing through both the D20 and D23 under any given set of conditions, you can do more of a comparative analysis. Of course that does leave open the possibility of inconclusive results.

How exact is the '1 qt.' difference as used between the two pans?
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
I doubt if anybody with access to that kind of information is at liberty to share it. However, if you assume the same amount of oil flowing through both the D20 and D23 under any given set of conditions, you can do more of a comparative analysis. Of course that does leave open the possibility of inconclusive results.

How exact is the '1 qt.' difference as used between the two pans?
Used to take up the balance shafts capasity, they probably hold a quart of oil.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
While it would cost a little money and a bit of time, with access to both pans, you could test your hypothesis easily enough in your garage. Basically you just need a way to measure the angle each can be tipped to before the pickup tube would be exposed to air.
This Plus add 6qtrs to each pan. I don't believe you'll lose oil to the pick up on a 23 w/ a bsd plug using 6qtrs of oil. And I also am using a windage tray also.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:11 AM   #20
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So it seems the baffle/windage trays are becoming scarce. So I made my own out of some leftover materials in the shop. Hope to have her buttoned up this weekend, time permitting, and back on the road.

I'm now thinking the noise was relating to too light and pretty toasty 5w20 Mobil1. Now moving to 10w30 Mobil1, bigger diameter PureOne oil filter, one of those clamp on cooling fins for the oil filter the air (oil) cooled Porsche guys used to use. Oh, and an oil temp gauge, prolly should get a pressure gauge too to monitor filter clogging and viscosity degradation.

Thanks for the discussion guys! I've learned a lot and enjoyed it immensely. You guys rock!
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