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Old 06-27-2013, 05:23 PM   #21
TboneZX3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
I think the issue here is that you don't quite understand the cause of the symptom.
Yes, I'm sure that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
Wheel hop is caused when the tires lose and gain traction rapidly due to flexibility in the suspension. This is a fact.
I have never argued against that fact. It is caused when the tires lose and gain traction rapidly, and suspension flexibility is one contributor--among others. For example, those which I have mentioned above. I think if it was stated even more times than it's already been stated, it would likely still not be more true.

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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
If you remove any flexibility from the suspension, there is no chance for wheel hop to occur, regardless of what type of engine mount you are using.
That is because you have removed enough of the total forces that can induce wheel hop and it will not longer be an issue, as I mentioned above. However, other forces exist that can contribute to wheel hop, as I mentioned above, but aren't necessarily severe enough to result in wheel hop by themselves. (are you reading?)

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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
When you install a stiffer engine mount, you are not modifying the suspension. The mount itself has absolutely no bearing on the suspension components.
Really, wow. Tell me more! The stiffer engine mount that somehow reduced wheel hop has no bearing on the flexibility of the suspension components. What a novel concept. I never would have thought of such a thing. [/sarcasm]

In other words, no $hit Sherlock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
By installing a stiffer motor mount, you've only slightly changed the variables that induce wheel hop. You haven't fixed anything.
Of course. Similar to if I change part of the suspension, but still have flexibility in others. I have only changed some of the variables that may impart forces to induce wheel hop. If I have a solid suspension, there are also other factors that exist that can contribute to wheel hop, but they are likely not imparting enough force by themselves for wheel hop to propagate. Nonlinear variation in torque and acceleration due to movement of the engine on the mounts or vertical forces exerted by acceleration combined with high unsprung mass (or other factors not even discussed) would very likely not be enough to cause wheel hop on their own, but each can be a contributing factor. Neither of those factors have anything do with flexibility of the suspension. CRAZY!


OK, I'm done here. You're completely right, and I'm wrong. The ONLY thing that causes wheel hop is suspension is flexibility in the suspension, and nothing else. I'm so glad that we can now agree on this and move on. OP and others, just ignore everything I've stated here. If you buy a stiffer engine mount, do not expect it to show any improvements toward the issue of wheel hop. After all, it is not stiffening the flexy suspension, so it will have no bearing whatsoever on wheel hop.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
OK. You're completely right, and I'm wrong. The ONLY thing that causes wheel hop is suspension is flexibility in the suspension, and nothing else. I'm so glad that we can now agree on this and move on. OP and others, just ignore everything I've stated here. If you buy a stiffer engine mount, do not expect it to show any improvements toward the issue of wheel hop. After all, it is not part of the flexy suspension.
You've clearly convinced yourself that installing an unrelated part will fix the problem. Your sarcasm is unwarranted.

I think every enthusiast should install upgraded engine mounts because they promote drivetrain efficiency and are, in general, a good idea.
I do not think they should be used as an alternative method of preventing wheel hop when we already know how to prevent it with suspension tuning.

If you have a headache, you take an aspirin because that is how you treat a headache.

If (for instance) taking a Viagra sort of relieves a headache, are you going to suggest everyone with a headache take a Viagra instead?
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
You've clearly convinced yourself that installing an unrelated part will fix the problem. Your sarcasm is unwarranted.

I think every enthusiast should install upgraded engine mounts because they promote drivetrain efficiency and are, in general, a good idea.
I do not think they should be used as an alternative method of preventing wheel hop when we already know how to prevent it with suspension tuning.

If you have a headache, you take an aspirin because that is how you treat a headache.

If (for instance) taking a Viagra sort of relieves a headache, are you going to suggest everyone with a headache take a Viagra instead?
I find it rather amusing that the two of you are arguing over something that you both agree is a good thing to do for your cars. However, I think the point that tbone was trying to make is, while changing a motor mount may not be a "cure" for all wheel hop, the root cause of wheel hop on our cars was the engine bouncing around more than it should. Because it was doing that, the stock suspension not being tuned for that kind of movement, was in fact the root cause for the wheel hop. That being said, it's cheaper and easier to replace a motor mount than it is to get all new suspension. Therefore enthusiasts on a budget can just replace their rmm instead of dropping 12-1500$ or more on suspension and get basically the same results.

Does that clarify it at all?
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
You've clearly convinced yourself that installing an unrelated part will fix the problem. Your sarcasm is unwarranted.
IMO, The sarcasm was warranted because you're repeating things I've already discussed, so it should be obvious at that point that I'm aware of them. If you don't share my opinion that it's warranted, that is your right.

I never stated that installing a motor mount will fix wheel hop and likewise, have not convinced myself of that. If you find where I did state that it would, feel free to quote me.

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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
I think every enthusiast should install upgraded engine mounts because they promote drivetrain efficiency and are, in general, a good idea.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
I do not think they should be used as an alternative method of preventing wheel hop when we already know how to prevent it with suspension tuning.
No one here has made the suggestion to buy a motor mount to prevent wheel hop. Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? You do understand that the OP was not asking for suggestions to reduce wheel hop, right? If he had, my first suggestion would not be a motor mount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
If (for instance) taking a Viagra sort of relieves a headache, are you going to suggest everyone with a headache take a Viagra instead?
If they also need to get it up at the same time, of course I would. Similarly, if someone approached me and wanted to improve drive train efficiency or clutch feel, yes, I would suggest installing a stiffer motor mount and, if as a possible effect of installing the mount some wheel hop was reduced, then even better.

Good day, sir.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalupaJones View Post
That being said, it's cheaper and easier to replace a motor mount than it is to get all new suspension. Therefore enthusiasts on a budget can just replace their rmm instead of dropping 12-1500$ or more on suspension and get basically the same results.

Does that clarify it at all?
You make a good point there. It seems that I've read something similar to that before.... You would have some improvement, anyway.

Oh, and thank you for finding amusement in the whole thing--I certainly do!
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
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You make a good point there. It seems that I've read something similar to that before.... You would have some improvement, anyway.

Oh, and thank you for finding amusement in the whole thing--I certainly do!
Lol, I've been following the topic for a while and it's just a little ridiculous when people repeat themselves using slightly different words to make the same point because they don't like being told they're wrong. Anyway, that's the take that I got on it. From all the looking in to rmm's that I've been doing its been advertised by several companies as a cure for the wheel hop.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:36 AM   #27
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It's funny that you think I'm wrong, when I'm clearly not.

I'm repeating myself in different ways because some people in the thread have gum for brains and are not understanding what is being said.

The OP was thinking that wheel hop is actually the engine banging around causing the wheels to "hop annoyingly" When that is definitely, completely, totally not the cause of wheel hop.

I've already explained what wheel hop is and how to remedy it. As it has already been stated, a weak engine mount is not enough to generate wheel hop on it's own, it is just a small part of the equation of torque and other forces that overwhelm the suspension.

We all agree the motor mount is a good thing to have. Where we disagree is that a motor mount should be used to reduce wheel hop. If you want to reduce wheel hop, concentrate your money and effort in the suspension tuning. A good suspension with a weak motor mount won't hop. A bad suspension with a good motor mount still has the capacity to hop. It's a no-brainer (surprising that some of you still don't get it...)
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #28
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PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHEEL HOP... WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_59ymTkvqbI
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:43 AM   #29
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PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHEEL HOP... WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_59ymTkvqbI
yup that's it
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:04 AM   #30
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I know that guy has to have solid motor mounts and he's STILL got wheel hop!!
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