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Old 06-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #91
TboneZX3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkyoda View Post
the AFR spike when you shift is because when your not on the throttle the focus cuts the fuel to give you better fuel economy when like coasting down a hill.
I'm aware of that, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about after I'm back on the gas, and AFR command says 15 and measured is 12. Again, though, I think that might be just due to some lag while it's sweeping the PIDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deesiel678 View Post
This one.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have the 'Faster Communication' option selected in Torque, and I have the log set up to log 4 times per second.
Sweet. That's the one I have, so I'll just try "faster communication" also. I'm also going to set it to synchronize so that it will not duplicate any records--one set of records per sweep.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Tjrommel View Post
I oriinally ordered the one with 4 stars for $12 and it failed me so I ordered the one i just did ;) but: check this one out
http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-mx.html
At some point it is probably overkill, the fastest one I have found so far is 200hz, which was about $1000, probably way more data than needed.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #93
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yea, and anyone want a chance to troll the hell out of me? How does timing advance improve output? (commence the trolling)
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Tjrommel View Post
yea, and anyone want a chance to troll the hell out of me? How does timing advance improve output? (commence the trolling)
Somebody else can answer this more complete than me, but in short it sparks the gases in the cylinder sooner so there is more gases getting compressed by the piston forcing it back down.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Tjrommel View Post
yea, and anyone want a chance to troll the hell out of me? How does timing advance improve output? (commence the trolling)

It doesn't necessarily--you must have the right fuel to match the timing. As the piston completes the compression stroke (compressing the air/fuel mixture), you want to be able to ignite the mixture as early (advanced) as possible, so you can most effectively & efficiently use the energy of combustion, and thus expansion in the chamber of the mixture, to stroke the piston downward.

Higher octane fuels will let you take advantage of advanced timing because they burn more slowly and resist self-ignition due to high compression. Thus the mixture can be ignited earlier (with control) and more efficiently expend energy during the power stroke, improving output.

The idea is to begin ignition as early as possible during the cycle of the piston, to get the most complete burn of the fuel you can, without igniting it too early and causing pre-detonation (or premature ignition). Pre-detonation would be ignition and expansion of gasses during the last moments of the (upward) compression stroke, and before the (downward) "power" stroke of the piston--not a good time to be "lighting the flame", so to speak. It is what causes "knock" when the timing is too far advanced.

That's my initial shot of explaining it... I could go on, but that's the basic jist... There are many more variables than those that I have mentioned here...
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:53 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
It doesn't necessarily--you must have the right fuel to match the timing. As the piston completes the compression stroke (compressing the air/fuel mixture), you want to be able to ignite the mixture as early (advanced) as possible, so you can most effectively & efficiently use the energy of combustion, and thus expansion in the chamber, of the mixture to stroke the piston downward.

Higher octane fuels will let you take advantage of advanced timing because they burn more slowly. Thus the mixture can be ignited earlier and expend more energy during the power stroke, improving output.

The idea is to get the most complete burn of the fuel you can, as early as possible during the cycle of the piston, without igniting it too early and causing pre-detonation. Pre-detonation would be ignition and expansion of gasses during the last moments of the compression stroke, and before the "power" stroke of the piston--not a good time to be "lighting the flame", so to speak. It is what causes "knock" when the timing is too far advanced.

That's my initial shot of explaining it... I could go on, but that's the basic jist... There are many more variables than just the fuel used...
This is pretty close. But I would correct the fact that higher octane fuel doesn't burn slower and instead it resists detonation due to compression better. Detonation and pinging are the equivalent of hitting your piston with a hammer on the compression stroke, and that's essentially what happens when the improper fuel can't resist the compression pressures and temperatures that are occurring around it. As soon as the ignition occurs the burnt fuel begins expanding, and that's occurring while the piston is still trying to compress the mixture. If a lower octane fuel is used it will eventually detonate due to the combination of temperatures and pressures that are being acted upon it if ignited too early BTDC.

This is why knock-sensors are installed in modern motors. When pinging occurs, the ECU simply pulls some of the timing to avoid it because it is better to have some fuel 'wasted' on the power stroke than it is to have those forces fighting your piston and crankshaft. Believe it or not, but this is also one of the primary reasons for installing a lower-temperature thermostat. The lower operating temps of the engine aid in allowing a greater timing advance to be run. This helps a motor out tremendously in high-temperature areas during the summer.

There are many factors that relate to ignition timing like temp, octane, and load. All of this used to be done with hand tools, highly calibrated ears, some hard engine pulls, and some spark plug inspection. Either way, it's really interesting stuff to read up on and learn about and Terry gave a pretty good generalized explanation of it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:04 PM   #97
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I will pull data this weekend and see how much the timing advance on the 87 tune is
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:28 PM   #98
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Dammit I added the part about resisting self detonation due to high compression right after you quoted me! :-\

Actually, I reworded a bunch of stuff right after I hit "post". I'm bad about that...

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085
But I would correct the fact that higher octane fuel doesn't burn slower and instead it resists detonation due to compression better.
Why would you correct a fact?
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:38 AM   #99
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Thanks for the suggestions to use the "faster communication" setting--that helped. I also recommend using the "synchronous logging" setting. Since it only writes one log entry per sweep of the sensors, it ensures there is no duplication from one record to the next in the log due to timing. I also turn off GPS logging to improve performance--it can easily be turned back on if that info is needed.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:51 AM   #100
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