Several Spontaneous Electrical Issues - Page 2 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2013, 06:24 PM   #11
BC_ZX3
DTC P0606
 
BC_ZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Fan#: 48751
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
What I Drive: 2001 Red ZX3 Turbo

Posts: 2,941
Points 2,059, Level 27
Points: 2,059, Level: 27 Points: 2,059, Level: 27 Points: 2,059, Level: 27
Level Up 40% Completed
Level up: 40% Level up: 40% Level up: 40%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 88 BC_ZX3 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
You might be onto something with the GEM module. As I was printing off the schematics for the systems you've listed - defrost, instrument cluster, blinkers, brake lights, rear wiper - the GEM module in the right "A" pillar is present in each circuit.
pm replied.
BC_ZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-13-2013, 09:42 PM   #12
MikeD666
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115572
Location: Livonia, MI
What I Drive: 2007, Silver, SES

Posts: 14
FF Reputation: 1 MikeD666 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Update:

I received GEM on Ebay from a smashed car of the same year. The posting claims that it will work on my year car if it has power locks/multifuntion. Here is the link - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...d=879215804013 Does anybody know what multifunction is?

These were not actual pictures. The part plugged and played well. I have part numbers available if anyone thinks necessary.

Started the car, and nothing behaved any differently. Same fuses same problems. I'm toying with the thought that possibly both parts were bad, but highly doubtful.

I replaced R25 relay for the heck of it with a new part, no change.

This leaves me with the rear hatch heater button to test with a swapped out known working one. I'm still not certain that this would have any issue on the cluster or rear wiper. I'm also toying with the thought of the blinker switch handle thing.

I'm desperate for any more suggestions. I've still been studying the wire diagrams from BC_ZX3 - the only thing I'm seeing common is the GEM. I cannot deny that I really do not have the expertise to read them 100%.

Any recommendations on next step?
MikeD666 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2013, 10:30 PM   #13
Milton
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Fan#: 89715
Location: San Antonio, TX
What I Drive: 2007 Black Focus SES 2.0 L4 4 Door

Posts: 403
Points 302, Level 6
Points: 302, Level: 6 Points: 302, Level: 6 Points: 302, Level: 6
Level Up 4% Completed
Level up: 4% Level up: 4% Level up: 4%
Forum Activity 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
FF Reputation: 8 Milton Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Wiring diagrams and a volt meter. Slow and methodical.
Milton is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #14
sailor
Crankshaft
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 16,625
Points 11,856, Level 71
Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71
Level Up 52% Completed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Forum Activity 99%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
FF Reputation: 79 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I'm guessing "power locks/multifunction" refers to door locking, trunk unlock, panic alarm functions of the key fob.

Noticed you'd asked earlier about dash screws still out/grounds. Metal dash sections that aren't screwed to anything COULD result in an incomplete ground circuit, since the chassis is used as a ground. Also, if you happen on any wires hanging loose with circular wire terminals at the end, these are ground connections that HAVE to be screwed to a grounded metal area.

Relays that provide power to circuits need a ground to function, no ground = relay that won't work, so no power can be supplied.

I'll describe their workings in my next post, think on these hints while I type some more (grin)
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2013, 10:57 PM   #15
MikeD666
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115572
Location: Livonia, MI
What I Drive: 2007, Silver, SES

Posts: 14
FF Reputation: 1 MikeD666 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I went through a little bit with a voltmeter earlier. I was not able to test the wires to the harness for the rear defrost switch - as the ports were too small to reach the pins.

All 4 fuses not receiving power have a voltage of 0.02. Everything else read fine on the fuse box voltage wise.

All grounds I could find looked good externally. I never touched them prior to this work.

I will try and get a better look at the dash later to see if anything is loose. I have looked it over pretty good in the last week already though. I believe I got all the screws back in. I did make an attempt to remove the air bag compartment, but backed out.

I found 2 wires that dead end in some kind of socket. One behind the radio that is clipped to the dash framing - I don't know if this is meant for grounding or testing of some sort. Also the was located near the shifter. I do not see anything loose that connects to these, nor do I recall removing anything from these areas.

Blend door seems to be working good....ha
MikeD666 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2013, 11:20 PM   #16
sailor
Crankshaft
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 16,625
Points 11,856, Level 71
Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71
Level Up 52% Completed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Forum Activity 99%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
FF Reputation: 79 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
For a "Primer" on relays;

Basic relay has two circuits, control & controlled power.

Control circuit has a switched low power "hot" input, that goes through a coil internal to the relay, then out to ground.

Controlled Power has a "hot" input, which is connected to it's output by the electromagnetic coil switch when that is energized.

Sample from earlier in the posts;

7A fuse provides power to a switch, when that is on power continues to a relay & then to ground. IF that circuit is complete, the relay switch is closed to complete a power circuit to feed an accessory (like the rear defrost).

Power may go direct to the hot power side of the relay, then to a larger fuse, and continue to the accessory - then to ground to complete the circuit.

SO - if the relay control circuit isn't grounded, relay can't close, power won't go to that large fuse, and the accessory doesn't work.

Exact paths need to be confirmed by the wiring diagrams, but that's an example of how you could get the results you are experiencing.

Hope that helps, it'll give you something to think on at least!

Cheers!
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #17
sailor
Crankshaft
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 16,625
Points 11,856, Level 71
Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71
Level Up 52% Completed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Forum Activity 99%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
FF Reputation: 79 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Sounds like you have a manual transmission, the "extra" plug near the shifter would be a control circuit for an automatic.

Can't guess on the other for sure, harness has functions for many things that are optional.

Luck!
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2013, 12:05 AM   #18
MikeD666
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Fan#: 115572
Location: Livonia, MI
What I Drive: 2007, Silver, SES

Posts: 14
FF Reputation: 1 MikeD666 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Thanks for the replies. I did not mean to confuse, this is an automatic. I guess I meant the gear selector.

I understand that the end result is further investigation. I just cannot imagine that a ground is bad. The only ones I have found so far are - one on the cabin fuse box - and one on each of the Column A side panels well hidden/protected. I'm still going with the assumption that I've caused this problem.

sailor, when you refer to the ground for the relay, would there be a new second ground when the additional current is applied? I would have to find where this terminates as well.

I've replaced a couple relays, and a few are swap-able. I hate to make these assumption all the time, but assuming they are not all bad, the swapping around method should work for test purposes. I feel the click of all the relays under then hood fuse box when turning the key. None of the two inside feel this way, even with the one I've replaced...and it sounds as if r25 will click when the rear defrost is selected.

I will get my hands on an identical rear defrost switch tomorrow. I'm leaning against this being my problem, as it is pretty well constructed, and has never had issue. If it result from the harness, I would be surprised as well. As I mentioned previous, the harness on this device is one of the tighter ones, even with a plastic tie. It was also easily removable.

Any suggestions or educational comments welcomed!
MikeD666 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2013, 01:40 AM   #19
sleepyboy
FF's Night Security
 
sleepyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Fan#: 15335
Location: SW Houston, TX, United States
What I Drive: 01' Yellow ZX3 euro, 04' ZX5 SVT

Posts: 26,349
Points 135,954, Level 100
Points: 135,954, Level: 100 Points: 135,954, Level: 100 Points: 135,954, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 65%
Activity: 65% Activity: 65% Activity: 65%
FF Reputation: 48 sleepyboy Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (11)
Have you checked the rear hatch wiring where it comes out of the body and goes into the hatch? The wires right there tend to crack the insulation on them and touch each other or the body and can cause all sorts of weird electrical problems. Just pop the hatch and pull the rubber boot off and take a looky see.
__________________
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

Hatch Nation #15 (Ole' Yeller') & #150 (The SVT)
Moderator for
Technical Chat
Zetec Performance Chat
Southern Fanatics Chat
sleepyboy is online now  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2013, 01:50 AM   #20
sailor
Crankshaft
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 16,625
Points 11,856, Level 71
Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71 Points: 11,856, Level: 71
Level Up 52% Completed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Forum Activity 99%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
FF Reputation: 79 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Didn't confuse, I was guessing since many with 5-spds find an empty connector there the automatics use.

You've found some grounds I see, that one near the fuse box could possibly have caused the issues if it wasn't connected.

Relay needs a ground to work (click & close contacts). This can even be "switched" as well for more complicated circuits.

I know the Focus uses at least SOME switched grounds from prev. threads where folks thought a switch was bad 'cause they didn't see power there - it was a switched ground & the fault was elsewhere so no power got to that connector.

I'm working without a schematic, just throwing out info. on how things work in general.

For another example, if you probed that R25 socket and found power at 2 pins, one of the others would likely go to the rear defrost, and the other would be switched ground through the defrost switch & timer.

This is where the schematics come into play, tracing what SHOULD happen on paper, so you can test for where it's working right & where it doesn't match the expected result.

Luck!
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat