ST Sedan... - Page 2 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Third Generation > MK3 Focus

MK3 Focus The place to chat about general questions, window tinting, exterior body, interior and lighting upgrades for the third generation 2012-Current Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2013, 07:58 PM   #11
Red Jay 918
Focus Fanatic
 
Red Jay 918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Fan#: 79277
Location: Tulsa, OK
What I Drive: 2010 Focus SE

Posts: 1,862
FF Reputation: 7 Red Jay 918 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
well i'd imagine you'd need supporting mods for that 100hp/115+ft lb increase, like mounts, suspension, brakes, clutch... or are you just gonna put the ST engine in there and leave everything else stock?
Red Jay 918 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #12
amoosenamedhank
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96374
Location: St. Paul, MN
What I Drive: 2012 SE Hatch

Posts: 684
FF Reputation: 3 amoosenamedhank Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFGSS View Post
A bolt on turbo kit isn't a problem. I posed the question because I don't for see one in the future. It doesn't seem like the new Focus is a huge tuning platform. The blocks in both the Focus and ST are the same, aren't they?
You're not being resourceful enough. You blow $15k+ on a ST and then you can feel ridiculous when someone gets boosted with a put together kit for penny's on your dollar.

You saw it cuz I tapped it
__________________
What's that?? You'd like an eco-tune...
amoosenamedhank is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #13
GMFGSS
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2013
Fan#: 114646
Location: Fort Drum, NY
What I Drive: 2013 Sterling Grey Focus Titanium

Posts: 39
FF Reputation: 1 GMFGSS Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Jay 918 View Post
well i'd imagine you'd need supporting mods for that 100hp/115+ft lb increase, like mounts, suspension, brakes, clutch... or are you just gonna put the ST engine in there and leave everything else stock?
The suspension set ups in the ST versus the normal Focus aren't very different. The mounts would need changed. The brakes are nothing special on an ST. The clutch would be swapped out with the transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
You're not being resourceful enough. You blow $15k+ on a ST and then you can feel ridiculous when someone gets boosted with a put together kit for penny's on your dollar.

You saw it cuz I tapped it
I don't follow...
GMFGSS is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #14
suss6052
Focus Addict
 
suss6052's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95752
Location: ..., MI
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST2 Ingot Silver

Posts: 12,201
FF Reputation: 23 suss6052 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
You're not being resourceful enough. You blow $15k+ on a ST and then you can feel ridiculous when someone gets boosted with a put together kit for penny's on your dollar.

You saw it cuz I tapped it
Just because tuning is coming soon if not already available (SCT has the software and injected is working on something, but nothing that's been 100% released to shops to work with for the DCT at least), doesn't mean it wouldn't cost close to the same amount of money to do things properly in the first place.

Unless you get really lucky and find everything you need for pennies on the dollar it will add up really quickly if you had to buy everything new.

The crate ecoboost engine has an $8000 msrp from ford racing parts.

Depending on how over built or not the stock pistons, rods and block are It would be hard to determine if 12:1 compression + even 10 psig of boost pressure would be acceptably durable for you or not. Not saying it can't be done, but no one has really tried yet and until people start blowing engines other than by leaving the primary oxygen sensor off and driving the hell out of the car until it dies close to stock but with a header and intake.

These engines are very sensitive to getting the air fuel mixture right it seems.


The basic block may be of a similar design, but currently every single 2.0 L GDI engine for North America is built in Dearborn, and every 2.0 L GTDI engine is coming from Valencia, Spain.

The 2.0 L GTDI engine would be built in Cleveland by late 2014, but not before then. Not 100% sure where they are casting the blocks though, probably locally to each engine assembly plant.

Bore x stroke are similar, but piston design and combustion chamber design reduce the compression ratio of the GTDI engine to allow for it to run higher boost pressures (SAE rated at 19.5 psig, peak overboost stock is 21 psig) from the k03 turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFGSS View Post
The suspension set ups in the ST versus the normal Focus aren't very different. The mounts would need changed. The brakes are nothing special on an ST. The clutch would be swapped out with the transmission.



I don't follow...
The suspension setup is completely different in the rear, the new cast knuckles essentially make the same 22 mm dia bar behave like a 27 mm bar on the stock MK3 suspension setup.

And the brakes are not nothing, the fronts are 12.6" vs 10.9" on the base car. Sure you can get the plus 1 or plus two kits from TCE or Wilwood for 13+" front rotors, but then you'd definitely need to run 18" wheels and tires or larger to clear the front brakes of that setup.

I don't think you're thinking this through, but I wish you good luck and document everything.
__________________
Moderator for: DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance, ST Performance, MK3 Focus
suss6052 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 09:26 PM   #15
amoosenamedhank
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96374
Location: St. Paul, MN
What I Drive: 2012 SE Hatch

Posts: 684
FF Reputation: 3 amoosenamedhank Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Just because tuning is coming soon if not already available (SCT has the software and injected is working on something, but nothing that's been 100% released to shops to work with for the DCT at least), doesn't mean it wouldn't cost close to the same amount of money to do things properly in the first place.

Unless you get really lucky and find everything you need for pennies on the dollar it will add up really quickly if you had to buy everything new.

The crate ecoboost engine has an $8000 msrp from ford racing parts.

Depending on how over built or not the stock pistons, rods and block are It would be hard to determine if 12:1 compression + even 10 psig of boost pressure would be acceptably durable for you or not. Not saying it can't be done, but no one has really tried yet and until people start blowing engines other than by leaving the primary oxygen sensor off and driving the hell out of the car until it dies close to stock but with a header and intake.

These engines are very sensitive to getting the air fuel mixture right it seems.


The basic block may be of a similar design, but currently every single 2.0 L GDI engine for North America is built in Dearborn, and every 2.0 L GTDI engine is coming from Valencia, Spain.

The 2.0 L GTDI engine would be built in Cleveland by late 2014, but not before then. Not 100% sure where they are casting the blocks though, probably locally to each engine assembly plant.

Bore x stroke are similar, but piston design and combustion chamber design reduce the compression ratio of the GTDI engine to allow for it to run higher boost pressures (SAE rated at 19.5 psig, peak overboost stock is 21 psig) from the k03 turbo.



The suspension setup is completely different in the rear, the new cast knuckles essentially make the same 22 mm dia bar behave like a 27 mm bar on the stock MK3 suspension setup.

And the brakes are not nothing, the fronts are 12.6" vs 10.9" on the base car. Sure you can get the plus 1 or plus two kits from TCE or Wilwood for 13+" front rotors, but then you'd definitely need to run 18" wheels and tires or larger to clear the front brakes of that setup.

I don't think you're thinking this through, but I wish you good luck and document everything.
Yes, if you're paying someone to do all of your work, things will get spendy really fast... that's why people need to learn how to pick up a wrench.

I pieced together a supercharger system for my mustang for $2,100... it's really not that difficult.

As I said earlier... I'm not afraid of the stock compression of this engine. There is way to much information available on DI based durtec engines to pretend that we know nothing.


Tuning will ultimately dictate the success of turboing these cars. If the software is adequate, there shouldn't be an issue... but people seem to think tuning software is black and white... and it's not. Just because someone has written some code to change a couple of things around doesn't mean they have exposed enough of the ECU to successfully accomplish everything necessary to have a smooth running boosted application.

You saw it cuz I tapped it
__________________
What's that?? You'd like an eco-tune...
amoosenamedhank is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 12:32 PM   #16
feta_mgp
Focus Fanatic
 
feta_mgp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Fan#: 88210
Location: Vero Beach, FL
What I Drive: 2012 SGM Focus SEL

Posts: 2,621
FF Reputation: 7 feta_mgp Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
The ST has a sizable aftermarket for it already. Several hard parts manufacturers have been taking the leap and diving into the ST.

Cobb already has an AccessPort for it that can handle tuning needs.

I say get the crate motor and supporting pieces from a wrecked ST (they're out there, a few of them are already popping up on focusst.org) to fill in the gaps.

With the ST setup and ECU, the A/F ratio is dictated by MAP sensors, not the more finicky MAF sensor, the ST doesn't even have one. The car makes no real additional power by adding an intake, intercooler, etc. because the MAP sensors adjust the A/F ratio to meet the torque goals set for the engine, it takes a tuner like the AccessPort to change those torque targets and make more power. So, the A/F ratio stuff is really a non-issue.

The front end pieces we already know will bolt right on, same with the side skirts. The only thing is going to be getting a custom rear valance built that emulates the stock ST look if you're going for it, or a custom valance that suits your needs and matches up with the front fascia and ST side skirts.

I'd also recommend getting the steering wheel from the wrecked car if you go that route, just one test drive made me want one. Fluffy perforated leather wrap makes a big difference in comfort and control.

Good luck with the project.. there's a guy on FST.org who's piecing together an ST out of two wrecked STs all himself, if he can do that, you can do an ST sedan!
__________________
2012 SGM SEL Sedan Job 1 BD 6/2011
FSWERKS Cool-Flo w/ ITG Filter | FSWERKS Stealth Exhaust | 17x7.5 Axis Sport XMX Graphite wheels | Eibach Sportlines on Ti Handling Pkg bits
Sonic Crew #28
feta_mgp is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #17
joecicalese
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Fan#: 105573
Location: Lakewood, NJ
What I Drive: 2001 Black ZTS

Posts: 369
FF Reputation: 4 joecicalese Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
I just don't understand why we don't have a performance sedan option. I'd be first in line to buy one if they did.
joecicalese is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:40 AM   #18
suss6052
Focus Addict
 
suss6052's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95752
Location: ..., MI
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST2 Ingot Silver

Posts: 12,201
FF Reputation: 23 suss6052 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joecicalese View Post
I just don't understand why we don't have a performance sedan option. I'd be first in line to buy one if they did.
The sedan while marginally more aerodynamic is also somewhat less rigid. We don't have the exact figures on this part.

It also wouldn't be a European Hot Hatch or hot estate (there is also an ST wagon in Europe that we don't get either) if it was a Sedan.

I'd rather see the Focus Wagon, and the ST version of the wagon than a sedan personally.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be an interesting idea, although Ford doesn't think it would sell.
__________________
Moderator for: DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance, ST Performance, MK3 Focus
suss6052 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #19
joecicalese
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Fan#: 105573
Location: Lakewood, NJ
What I Drive: 2001 Black ZTS

Posts: 369
FF Reputation: 4 joecicalese Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The sedan while marginally more aerodynamic is also somewhat less rigid. We don't have the exact figures on this part.

It also wouldn't be a European Hot Hatch or hot estate (there is also an ST wagon in Europe that we don't get either) if it was a Sedan.

I'd rather see the Focus Wagon, and the ST version of the wagon than a sedan personally.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be an interesting idea, although Ford doesn't think it would sell.
As a lover of wagons (my other car is a 1984 Fox-body LTD Two-Tone Wagon), I completely agree.

I was heartbroken when I saw the European Focus wagon. My hope is that Ford will introduce more variations of the Focus in the US market as time goes by. Even with the MK1's we had the SVT in 2002, ZX5 in 2003, etc.

Though it's not really a "performance option" per se, the ZTS was perfect, because it allowed those who prefer a sedan to start at the same point as the hatch crowd. The new sedans are very handsome, but leave way too much to be desired for performance.
joecicalese is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:56 AM   #20
TboneZX3
Ford Fiend
 
TboneZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Fan#: 90494
Location: Jackson, MO
What I Drive: '12 SE Sport, '01 ZX3, '67 Bronco

Posts: 2,179
FF Reputation: 10 TboneZX3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joecicalese View Post
Though it's not really a "performance option" per se, the ZTS was perfect, because it allowed those who prefer a sedan to start at the same point as the hatch crowd. The new sedans are very handsome, but leave way too much to be desired for performance.
I don't see your point here. The Mk3 sedan owners also start out at basically the same point as the hatch crowd.

The ZTS had roughly the same performance as the ZX3, and today's sedan has roughly the same performance as today's hatch. So, it seems to me that the approach for the Mk1 was basically the same as the Mk3, except that the Mk3 doesn't have a performance "neutered" sedan like the Mk1 did (SPI). The only true "performance" version of the Mk1 (SVT) was only offered in a hatch, just as is the case for the Mk3 (ST).

I don't understand how you can say the ZTS was perfect and the new sedan leaves much to be desired for performance, when today's stock base model sedan will blow away the stock ZTS in performance.

Now, lamenting the lack of a wagon in the US, I do understand.
__________________
Hatch Nation #90
'12 SE Sport 5Dr |╠╬╝|Sterling Grey Metallic|203a|Moonroof|17" Paint/Mach Whls|K&N 57S-4000|FFE RMM|Steeda STB, RSB|JBR bushings
'01 ZX3|╠╬╝|Pitch Black|Prem. pkg.|Moonroof|SVT Snorkel|SVT Springs|S2 Dampers|Steeda STS|Magnaflow exh.
TboneZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.