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Old 05-07-2013, 07:20 AM   #11
Phacade
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I really appreciate your tact, AMC49. A lot of guys such as yourself that know so much more than I would might be tempted to be condescending and patronize their superiority above underinformed guys like myself through under-the-belt jabs like "Kindergarten kids".

Clearly I should know better than to ask a Focus-related question on a Focus forum.

Seriously though, if your done holding me by the scruff of my neck and rubbing my nose in it like a common schoolyard bully, perhaps you'll ease off and recognize I'm simply asking a question. No, I probably don't know as much as you. Thats why I asked. Yes, I appreciate your two-cents worth, but leave the attitude at the door. I come to these boards to gain knowledge, not to be talked-down to because I know less than someone else.

Makes sense, yes? Talk nice. Recognize that if you answer another's post, your helping them...so sound helpful. Anything less than cordial makes you come off like a bit of a jerk. Still, thank you for the tip. I was previously unaware that probing the harness was a no-no.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:21 AM   #12
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I think that retort covers it, IMHO. Thinking you scared him a bit when you showed probing back to the ECU, that's potentially a very bad idea....

Testing for key-on power at the center connector of that plug might help. It should be numbered 1,2,3 making the center the power source for the coil.

There is an "ignition relay" in the under hood fuse box on my '04, and the manual for it includes SVT models. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram handy to know how it functions in the system, and it doesn't match others for an easy "swap" to test.

"PATS" light goes from flashing to constant on, then off, when key is turned just to check if that may be an issue (PATS disables ignition when it doesn't see a key it recognizes).

Luck!

P.S. - 'beep" when checking the outer two pins of the coil is correct for continuity, should "beep" when touching any combination of pins there.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:38 AM   #13
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Continuity or beeps there are not the issue and indeed checking like that could easily cloud it further. Sure, supposed to be some sort of continuity there, but with certain values, wire loops shorted in coil primaries would show up as beeps and if all that one is looking for is the beep then flawed because now thinking coil is good when it's very possibly not.

Simplest check for coil? Run a jumper from center pin of harness connector to center pin of coil. 2 more jumper wires from outside coil (not connector) pins. At least two plugs out and hooked up to plug wires, say 1 and 2. Plugs grounded on metal surface. Key on. Ground one of the coil outer pin jumpers to ground and then break the ground, one or the other of the plugs will fire. Grounding and breaking the other wire will fire the remaining one. Everything fine...............

Nobody said probing the harness was bad, rather probing the harness with PCM still connected, a totally different thing.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #14
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I'd try the coil test with all the plugs grounded & wires connected so the "wasted spark" has a place to go...

If you don't get spark from it with this test, it's surely N.G.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #15
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My assumption was that the two unused plugs/wires would be left installed to do that.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:42 PM   #16
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that would work. Either way, the induction would be created when you let go of the ground. when you connect the ground, current rises to a limited value and is released when you let it go. That creates the 10k volts or so in the secondary winding.

AMC is kind of correct....should have said ohmmeter and not voltmeter. But yeah, anyway, never test a live circuit for resistance, it's a good way to bust your meter. When testing a computer circuit, you have to make sure you have the right meter. I believe a CATII and CATIII rated meter is fine (in other words, a digital multimeter). Analog multimeters can send too much current through the computer and destroy a circuit. Digitals use a smaller current that is safe. This is kind of the same reason you want to wear a static armband when working on or around computers. I have seen static shock exceed well over 20k volts a few times when I was playing with my meter.

But yes! as mentioned, all the beeps mean is that there is some kind of continuity...that a complete circuit has been made. The question is, does that circuit have too much or too little resistance? Too much, and there's too little current to be useful. Too little, and the current could be high enough to pop a fuse or melt a wire.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #17
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I cannot quantify it with a volt number but the most intense shock I ever got was from static built up in PVC pipe (acts like a capacitor), the shock was so violent people said I sprung 4 feet in the air. Cleaned my brain like a wiped hard drive, like electroshock therapy. I did not even know what had happened or even who I was for a good ten or fifteen minutes. Was wondering why everyone was making a big deal out of me lying on the floor. We had another guy who violently went through a sheetrock divider wall where he was working also, got cut pretty bad on the sheet metal girders used to build that stuff.

To me voltmeter and ohmmeter same toy, or VOM (volt/ohm meter). Can't imagine one without the other. I keep analog and digital types around as there are things you can do with one and not the other. I've blown a nice mainboard from simple handling static, I will not send power into a board unless the board maker tells me specifically to do so, regardless of what the meter puts out. Sometimes unless ALL circuits are powered up, powering a single circuit with even the normal amount of power that it runs with can damage things if there is an overlying control circuit that handles that normal power and it is not powered up. Anybody ever plugged in a PC power supply without plugging it into a load to watch it blow up before? The load is the power choke there. I definitely cannot say with auto PCMs, but caution there is warranted to me. Besides that, 99% of the time the problem is elsewhere so why go looking for further trouble.......................
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #18
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No worries amc, I'm just the "go stupid early" guy who asks if it's got gas when the complaint is "doesn't run" (grin)

Tested a lot of motorcycle coils OFF the bike years ago, 'cause people ALWAYS thought it was the coil when they didn't have spark - easier than dealing with them when they wanted to return the electrical part when it didn't solve the problem. Our old Honda tester was set up for basic single post coils, and if you wired a two post the same way it wouldn't spark - Focus coil is like a pair of those, that's why I thought of making sure both sides had a spark path...

Blew up MY favorite Fluke meter years ago with an accidental coil output "zap", it was from an oil furnace spark transformer not an automotive coil but the theory's the same. Touch the wrong thing & you'll be sorry....

Cheers!
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:08 PM   #19
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I've got a fluke 88v, but I don't remember what the voltage rating on it is.

AMC, I know static shock has been recorded to at least 60k volts by my instructor. Those were just my test results.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
P.S. - 'beep" when checking the outer two pins of the coil is correct for continuity, should "beep" when touching any combination of pins there.
Actually, I just caught this. It would be the case if the connector were plugged in, but they should not have continuity if it's unplugged. If they did, then it means the connection is grounded.
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