Keeping oil from coking up the intake valves on our DI engines - Page 6 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Third Generation > DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current)

DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current) The place to chat about any Duratec 2.0L Ti-VCT engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #51
mikebontoft
Toxx
 
mikebontoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Fan#: 58647
Location: SLC, UT
What I Drive: 5.9L Grand Cherokee ZJ

Posts: 25,765
FF Reputation: 76 mikebontoft Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
one of my coworkers performed a walnut service on a BMW a few weeks back. he took before and after pics of the valves. I'll see if I can find those for you guys.

And if you're wondering what a walnut service is, it's like glassbeading but the crushed walnut shells are degradable in the engine. still requires removing the Intake manifold though.
__________________
SR #127 | '02 Focus SE "Foci" (5.0 RWD - parting) | '90 Mazda 626 GT "Greenie" (2.2L turbo T3/T4 rebuild-sold) | '75 BMW 2002 "Carby" (resto-mod racecar) | '75 BMW 2002 (donor -sold) | '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L (lifted and fast) | '99 BMW 328is (alt. daily).
Moderating General Chat Lounge, General Technical Chat, Ford Focus & General Car Chat, and Rocky Mountain Fanatics
mikebontoft is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-14-2013, 01:16 PM   #52
Arco-Zakus
Focus Addict
 
Arco-Zakus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Fan#: 101658
Location: Fremont, CA
What I Drive: 2014 SGM SE Sport Pkg Sedan 5sp-man

Posts: 802
FF Reputation: 10 Arco-Zakus Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
You're welcome but PandT found it first

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
Thank you!
You're welcome, but PandT gets the credit for finding that article. (After I posted the link to it for you, I went back into my notes to recall where I got it from originally. It was in post #21 of this very thread.) I also had read a bunch of stuff on VW and Audi forums, since they've got many years more experience with gasoline direct injection (GDI) engines, but I don't recall any of it that made this stuff any clearer than that article does.

Slightly off topic, but another issue related to GDI engines you'll probably be interested in, if you haven't already run into it, is "fuel dilution". (That's a misnomer because it isn't the fuel that gets diluted, but the oil in the crankcase that gets diluted by the fuel.) I read a comment in some FocusFanatics thread about engine lubricants and change intervals to the effect: "... as everyone knows, direct injection engines have a problem with fuel dilution ...". I didn't know that, but researching that is what lead me to this topic.

From what I had read about GDI allowing more precise metering and timing of fuel delivery than port injection does, that came as a surprise to me. I set out to find evidence that would refute that statement, but found that it actually supported it. The reasons may have made sense to me at the time, but I decided it's easier to drive in a way that minimizes the problem and change oil often enough than to carry all that stuff around in my head.

GDI has been adopted despite its higher complexity and manufacturing cost because it (along with the higher compression ratio it allows) results in more power and better fuel economy. Those benefits could be offset by higher maintenance cost, as discussed in this thread. I've also been wondering about how the reliability and cost to repair GDI components (injector nozzles, pumps, lines) will compare to port injection systems. That could easily offset any savings from better fuel economy. Time will tell.

Last edited by Arco-Zakus; 07-29-2013 at 02:22 AM. Reason: correct typo
Arco-Zakus is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 01:41 PM   #53
Seminoles
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Fan#: 98405
Location: Lakeland, FL
What I Drive: 2012 SGM SE Sedan

Posts: 1,089
FF Reputation: 1 Seminoles Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
What about what I would do on my MOPAR's a sealed breather that has the hose attachment one on each cover hose goes to reed valve's at an angle in the collector of the headers so exhaust pulses would pull out vapors and burn in hot exhaust? Would also auto lube the muffler bearing....

Seminoles is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 02:32 PM   #54
TboneZX3
Ford Fiend
 
TboneZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Fan#: 90494
Location: Jackson, MO
What I Drive: '12 SE Sport, '01 ZX3, '67 Bronco

Posts: 2,179
FF Reputation: 10 TboneZX3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
Slightly off topic, but another issue related to GDI engines you'll probably be interested in, if you haven't already run into it, is "fuel dilution".
Every used oil analysis I've seen for this engine shows that fuel dilution is basically a non-issue.
__________________
Hatch Nation #90
'12 SE Sport 5Dr |╠╬╝|Sterling Grey Metallic|203a|Moonroof|17" Paint/Mach Whls|K&N 57S-4000|FFE RMM|Steeda STB, RSB|JBR bushings
'01 ZX3|╠╬╝|Pitch Black|Prem. pkg.|Moonroof|SVT Snorkel|SVT Springs|S2 Dampers|Steeda STS|Magnaflow exh.
TboneZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 02:24 AM   #55
Arco-Zakus
Focus Addict
 
Arco-Zakus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Fan#: 101658
Location: Fremont, CA
What I Drive: 2014 SGM SE Sport Pkg Sedan 5sp-man

Posts: 802
FF Reputation: 10 Arco-Zakus Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Good news

Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
Every used oil analysis I've seen for this engine shows that fuel dilution is basically a non-issue.
That's good news.

I still can't understand why VW-Audi has had a problem with it. It makes sense that not spraying fuel into the port would prevent the additives in the fuel from cleaning the valves, but not that the more precise metering and timing with direct injection would cause more, rather than less, fuel to get into the crankcase.

In any case, the end result is more important than the theory, so thanks for that info. Maybe Ford's designers learned about some mistake VW-Audi had made with theirs and did it better.
Arco-Zakus is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 09:25 AM   #56
TboneZX3
Ford Fiend
 
TboneZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Fan#: 90494
Location: Jackson, MO
What I Drive: '12 SE Sport, '01 ZX3, '67 Bronco

Posts: 2,179
FF Reputation: 10 TboneZX3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
It makes sense that not spraying fuel into the port would prevent the additives in the fuel from cleaning the valves, but not that the more precise metering and timing with direct injection would cause more, rather than less, fuel to get into the crankcase..
Timing and metering of the injector pulses are certainly factors in fuel dilution. My understanding is that, typically, the issue in DI is that the injector spray wets the cylinder walls more than port injection, and thus the fuel is more likely to wash past the rings into the crankcase. With port injection, the fuel is in more of a gaseous state after it passes the intake valves, and isn't wetting the cylinder walls as directly.

The Ti-VCT seems to be an oil-tight engine with low consumption, so the ring seal must be fairly good. Typically it is turbocharged DI engines that see more fuel dilution, I believe, due to the higher pressures involved.

The UOAs that have been posted here show fuel dilution to be less than 0.5% in this engine, and some of those OCIs have been extended.
__________________
Hatch Nation #90
'12 SE Sport 5Dr |╠╬╝|Sterling Grey Metallic|203a|Moonroof|17" Paint/Mach Whls|K&N 57S-4000|FFE RMM|Steeda STB, RSB|JBR bushings
'01 ZX3|╠╬╝|Pitch Black|Prem. pkg.|Moonroof|SVT Snorkel|SVT Springs|S2 Dampers|Steeda STS|Magnaflow exh.
TboneZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:39 AM   #57
Borski
Focus Enthusiast
 
Borski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Fan#: 100013
Location: Cincinnati, OH
What I Drive: 2012 Focus - Black - SE

Posts: 176
FF Reputation: 1 Borski Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aron@Injected View Post
One of these has 1200 miles on it and the other has 9k on it
Aron, I should be down it ATL in early September with around 50k miles. I could swing by the shop and you could throw the BS in there if we're still looking at this issue.
__________________
| 2012 BLACK SE | DD & AutoX |
| 5 SPEED | SPORT PACKAGE |
| EIBACH SPORTLINE SPRINGS | SUMMER RUBBER: BF GOODRICH SPORT-COMP 2. ALL SEASON RUBBER: KUMHO ECSTA 4X |
Borski is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #58
ScooterCT70
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2012
Fan#: 98691
Location: Monterrey, United States
What I Drive: 2012 Ingot Silver Titanium Focus

Posts: 69
FF Reputation: 1 ScooterCT70 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
Every used oil analysis I've seen for this engine shows that fuel dilution is basically a non-issue.
Yup, I had a UOA by Blackstone and your exactly right. Anyone know how I can upload the pdf they sent me of the UOA?
ScooterCT70 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 07:01 AM   #59
XlarXlar
Focus Enthusiast
 
XlarXlar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Fan#: 111735
Location: Charlotte, NC
What I Drive: 2013 PB Ford Focus

Posts: 175
FF Reputation: 2 XlarXlar Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterCT70 View Post
Yup, I had a UOA by Blackstone and your exactly right. Anyone know how I can upload the pdf they sent me of the UOA?
I'm not sure if you can. The instructions are here: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/f...eading_posting

But when I look I cannot see the option and at the bottom of this thread there is a box labeled posting rules which states that "you may not post attachments." Now this could just be me so it's worth looking.

The other option that I can think of is to take a screenshot of the pdf and post that instead. If anyone has a better suggestion, let me know.
XlarXlar is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #60
TboneZX3
Ford Fiend
 
TboneZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Fan#: 90494
Location: Jackson, MO
What I Drive: '12 SE Sport, '01 ZX3, '67 Bronco

Posts: 2,179
FF Reputation: 10 TboneZX3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Take a screenshot, save as .jpg, and edit out your personal information.

That's how I did this one:http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317340
__________________
Hatch Nation #90
'12 SE Sport 5Dr |╠╬╝|Sterling Grey Metallic|203a|Moonroof|17" Paint/Mach Whls|K&N 57S-4000|FFE RMM|Steeda STB, RSB|JBR bushings
'01 ZX3|╠╬╝|Pitch Black|Prem. pkg.|Moonroof|SVT Snorkel|SVT Springs|S2 Dampers|Steeda STS|Magnaflow exh.
TboneZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.