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Old 05-05-2013, 10:38 PM   #21
PandT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
I said the main source is from the PCV system. The valve cover breather is just extra insurance. And I did find oil film in he tube that connected it to the air inlet tube.

This is common practice in the Mustang, Lightning, etc. world for instance. No catch can is really needed there unless you have a lot of blow-by.

Now between the PCV valve and the intake, that is another story. A oil separator/catch can is a must.

Btw, if you engine is in good condition, your can won't collect a lot of oil in a short period of time. If it does, then you have problems. If you can empty it at oil change time and get maybe a table spoon or two, then you are fine. Hopefully less.

F/I engines usually collect more than N/A engines for obvious reasons.
This was supposed to have been corrected:
http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

Proper cam/valve timing is supposed to have made this problem of no effect.

Are you saying that we actually do have a problem with the intake valves becoming coated/caked with carbon and gunk?

Is your post proof of this? I would really like to know.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
DI engines have no fuel in the intake ports.
Good point. I guess I thought it may help something.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandT View Post
This was supposed to have been corrected:
http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

Proper cam/valve timing is supposed to have made this problem of no effect.

Are you saying that we actually do have a problem with the intake valves becoming coated/caked with carbon and gunk?

Is your post proof of this? I would really like to know.
They can try all they want, but there will still be some buildup, it's just a byproduct of direct injection. It will be interesting to see if torquerules gets any oil in his can, because the STs are getting a lot of oil collection in their cans. Forced induction will make the issue worse of course, but with how bad it is on the ST i'd be willing to bet the NA models still have some issue.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:00 PM   #24
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And I have a separate thread on the PCV system which has just completed except for the actual valve identification instead of a 'Ported orifice'.

Try starting here for the '12+ Focus:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...95#post4709595

My other threads are in BITOG but they are incomplete since my attention has wavered greatly. I am not yet convinced that we have an issue, time and pictures of intake valves will show 'proof' but I don't know that we are there yet when it comes to time and miles on several engines for the 2012/13 models. We just don't have the miles and failures yet to say for sure.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandT View Post
And I have a separate thread on the PCV system which has just completed except for the actual valve identification instead of a 'Ported orifice'.

Try starting here for the '12+ Focus:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...95#post4709595

My other threads are in BITOG but they are incomplete since my attention has wavered greatly. I am not yet convinced that we have an issue, time and pictures of intake valves will show 'proof' but I don't know that we are there yet when it comes to time and miles on several engines for the 2012/13 models. We just don't have the miles and failures yet to say for sure.

I agree that we do not know yet. It may not even be much of an issue for us, but just in case...
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandT View Post
This was supposed to have been corrected:
http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

Proper cam/valve timing is supposed to have made this problem of no effect.

Are you saying that we actually do have a problem with the intake valves becoming coated/caked with carbon and gunk?

Is your post proof of this? I would really like to know.
I have no proof for our engines, but from working on many Non-DI engines I do know that it is even a factor there and they get fuel on the valves. It all depends on how you maintain and run your engine.

I read your posts and am interested in what you said about the breather hose maybe allowing a pressure differential to aid the PCV system. I will have to look into that as it is an interesting idea that in my anger to get rid of this emissions crap that is gunking our engines, I did not think of.

Most of the time we put a catch can/separator on the PCV side and a breather on the valve/cam cover side. Maybe no one has really given it much thought. I do know oil pulls in from there. Especially on boosted engines. You should have seen the intake hose on my Lighting before I fixed the system. Full of oil. The intake below the intercooler was horrible as well.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
They can try all they want, but there will still be some buildup, it's just a byproduct of direct injection. It will be interesting to see if torquerules gets any oil in his can, because the STs are getting a lot of oil collection in their cans. Forced induction will make the issue worse of course, but with how bad it is on the ST i'd be willing to bet the NA models still have some issue.
FI is horrible for this issue.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
They can try all they want, but there will still be some buildup, it's just a byproduct of direct injection. It will be interesting to see if torquerules gets any oil in his can, because the STs are getting a lot of oil collection in their cans. Forced induction will make the issue worse of course, but with how bad it is on the ST i'd be willing to bet the NA models still have some issue.

Any pics on how they routed their cans? Did they have to remove their intake to get to everything?
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
I said the main source is from the PCV system. The valve cover breather is just extra insurance. And I did find oil film in he tube that connected it to the air inlet tube.

This is common practice in the Mustang, Lightning, etc. world for instance. No catch can is really needed there unless you have a lot of blow-by.

Now between the PCV valve and the intake, that is another story. A oil separator/catch can is a must.

Btw, if you engine is in good condition, your can won't collect a lot of oil in a short period of time. If it does, then you have problems. If you can empty it at oil change time and get maybe a table spoon or two, then you are fine. Hopefully less.

F/I engines usually collect more than N/A engines for obvious reasons.
I understand that, but I have seen a lot of post with people thinking the breather hose is the main PCV issue. While it does vent it is like you said minor.

http://www.jamesbaroneracing.com/sto...th=147_219_220
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:04 AM   #30
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Well, I've been thinking, in order for this system to function better as an open system, I am going to have to add another breather to the valve/cam cover where the oil fill cap is.

Although the hose to the intake hose supposedly pulls air INTO the valve/cam cover, there was still oil all the way through the tube. Not much in the intake hose, but of course this is an NA engine. But vapors were getting in there somehow, so it must not be completely efficient.

In the past, on non-race engines where I have kept the PCV system, I have always had a rather large breather in the valve cover with the oil fill (like I did with my Lightning, and many do with late model Mustangs), but in retrospect what I have now is really not big enough. Two would be ideal to allow fresh air into the engine crankcase and allow vapors to vent. Then a catch can on the PCV side would be ideal.

If I were just starting from scratch, then there would be no PCV and instead a catch can with breather coming from the crankcase port (since most inline 4cyls use such a port for the PCV---I could still use the stock oil separator) and two large breathers on the valve/cam cover.

Even better, I'd love to do a closed vacuum pump system like my Mustang (maybe use and electric pump instead--an '03-'04 Cobra Mustang is a good source for one).

The pump I put on my Mustang:


I am going to work on this Focus system some more.

This thread is great. Gets us thinking on this. I am going to end up with something completely different than what I started on.
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