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Old 11-08-2013, 01:35 PM   #1
Magus2727
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Exclamation shims under springs?

I just called the machine shop and the owner said something about having to put shims under the springs. I have the Crower springs and retainers. Is this common?

I am not familiar with building heads or machine work on them to know if this is normal or "not a good sign".

Thanks!


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Old 11-08-2013, 03:22 PM   #2
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So they did not shim them. The Crower springs are 1.45 in diameter and then stock ones are 1.20. So the seat the valve sits in was to small. They rounded the bottom of the Crower spring to secure it in the valve seat.

Is this still common?
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:13 AM   #3
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Are they correct springs for motor? Not normal to be grinding or cutting on spring to me. They are case and surface hardened and can break easy as spit anywhere they are ground or cut on. You screw with the other surrounding parts and do not touch the springs.

Wondering if some sort of spring seat cutting should've been done there. I'd talk to Tom, he should know what's necessary there. Normally when going to bigger spring you have to cut the seat a bigger OD.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:38 AM   #4
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Sounds like you have the wrong springs. I am pretty sure the Crower Zetec springs are direct replacement.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:43 AM   #5
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Looks like after reading some bit. The Crower ones are larger and in "most cases" don't need machine work. I think they just needed to clean the sharp edge on the seat of the spring. I will call Monday. The shop is a reputable shop so I know he would not have done anything to compromise the integrity of the spring.

I know they did not grind or cut them. He said they sanded the bottom of the valve, sounded like to either just jad to remove some "flashing" that might have caused a sharper edge on the spring or had to take off a mil or so to sit them in.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:22 PM   #6
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Generally considered an absolute no-no to machine spring in any fashion AT ALL. They are tumbled and shotpeened for outer hardness, any weakening of that anywhere and you have a flaw in part that can break, the very nature of how a spring works then loads that area to crack. Even at the seat itself, although more rare there. No flashing will be on them, the manufacturing process removes that. I'd be instantly leery of any spring with flashing on it, a sign the external hardening was not done, at least properly.

These have nothing like big V-8 springs as far as tension; what would kill those almost instantly may well last on these.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #7
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The Crower springs need the pockets machined for the larger crower springs , any machine shop should have the cutter for this

I wouldnt cut the springs as the valve opens and the rounds of the springs come down and try to push into the pocket , do it right and cut the spring pockets

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:30 PM   #8
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So what do I tell the shop who has already assembled the head and chose not to cut it and I have already taken posestion of the head? Do I tell them they need to replace the springs they comprimized and get the cutter tool (apparently they don't have the cuter in that size) and redo it???

I have already assembled the motor also so guess if I pull it apart I would need to put in a new head gasket also. This guy builds a lot of 4 cyl heads for miatas.

Guess now not sure what to do. I did not specifically tell them the valve seats would have to be cut but I would have thought a machine shop would do what was best/correct.

The Crower text on C-F-M says that they typically don't need to be cut that the stock casting machine work "typically" has the room to fit the Crower springs. I think this is how they were able to fit the spring by just shaving a mil or two by rounding the bottom seat.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:21 PM   #9
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Don't know what to tell you except you've got a lot of time and cash in that motor.

Sometimes they can fit with slight interference fit, but if not a big no-no to mod the spring, you always mod the hole.

Don't know spring values but 4 valve are much weaker than 2 valve, as such maybe can get away with it but messing with a case hardened part there, any flaw exposing softer material becomes a stress riser. Really depends on how much they removed. I would think a 'mil or two' could've just been interference fit. Suspecting the difference is a little more than that. Wondering HOW they did it, you really can't just sand a spring, it gets ground and the machine marks are the danger.

New world, I could be full of it but not thinking so. You'd think anyone building engines would know this but?????

If happened to me I'd at least have to pull down enough to look at what I was dealing with.

Pro shop means nothing, I've seen the best shops in the WORLD put out garbage when they thought they could get away with it. They'll put their very best in their own race stuff but buyer beware on all the other. Back when Reher & Morrison were known for some of the fastest SBC pro stockers in the world there was lots of big too-doo about how anyone spending big money on their $20K BBC 500 inch motors and them quickly blowing up, we saw the insides of one that was pulled down in a panic over it and we were not impressed at all. Owner paid way too much there for basically parts just bolted together with no custom fitting to make all the parts work together at all.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #10
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Well I have spoken with Crower about the springs.

They are NOT case hardened and they say the sanding to round the edge of the spring seat will not damage the spring. This will have voided any warranty of manufacture defects however but has not impacted the performance or life of the spring.

I will be calling the machine shop in a few hours to confirm what was done and to see if they have record or can recall how much material they removed.

This is a reassurance. I do not recommend that anyone else do this and if installing the Crower springs make sure the shop cuts the seats larger on the head. but if you do there should be no effect to the performance of the spring.
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