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Old 05-05-2013, 10:12 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asting View Post
The benefit would be that the stock dyno wouldn't get cut off short of it's peak power, giving a more accurate before and after.
So you want to use the tune to remove the limiter in order to show the power without a tune

While I understand your logic, I have to also appreciate the irony.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #612
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Quote:
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So you want to use the tune to remove the limiter in order to show the power without a tune

While I understand your logic, I have to also appreciate the irony.
The use of 4th gear is to try and facilitate the dynoing process. the power made at 6500 rpm would be the same in lower gears, it just so happens that near that rpm in 4th gear crosses the limiter. The power used would most likely be in lower gears anyway by those who have the tune, so I don't really understand your point.

Remove the limiter and dyno in 4th, or just dyno in a lower gear with an asterisk saying only to compare against the tune.

I sure as hell won't be in 4th gear at 6500rpm even with a tune, as it is the lower gears i truly care about (where removing the speed limiter isn't an issue).

This is just to try and get a more accurate idea of what the tune actually does. Anyone who knows anything about engines knows that the peak hp doesn't matter that much, but it is a number that sells. Saying "10HP increase!" wouldn't technically be accurate, because it's more of a way that the vehicle is dyno'd than the actual point to point increase on the power curve.

As a hypothetical, you could dyno in 5th gear and remove the speed limiter on the "tuned" version, which would surely give you a 30+hp increase due to the cutoff (as the stock would be cut off way short of its peak number).

That doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

Also, @Aron. I don't mean this to come off hypercritical; I just want to see what this can actually do. I have to say that looking at the graph that the curve looks much smoother, and the driving difference sounds pretty good from the first hand accounts given.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:35 AM   #613
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Hypocritical or not.........I have thick skin. As far as other runs in a lower gear, I'll have to work on that next week. We did make multiple runs with limiter on, off, tuned, untuned, hood, up, hood down. I'll see if I can run by the office today, and upload some. If not, don't be surprised if I don't post these until Tuesday though.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Aron@Injected View Post
Hypocritical or not.........I have thick skin. As far as other runs in a lower gear, I'll have to work on that next week. We did make multiple runs with limiter on, off, tuned, untuned, hood, up, hood down. I'll see if I can run by the office today, and upload some. If not, don't be surprised if I don't post these until Tuesday though.
Oh great. No rush to get those, but it would be cool to see them eventually. Thanks for understanding.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:08 AM   #615
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You do know that dyno'ing in a lower gear could artificially raise the numbers because it's not a 1to1 comparison

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Old 05-05-2013, 11:13 AM   #616
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So I may have jumped the gun on my disappointment with the baseline. Aron emailed me a few graphs yesterday, and one labeled baseline seems to go to 164hp... initially I thought the label may have been a typo... Not sure if this was in 3rd gear with correction or in 4th with limiter removed. I guess I was too fixated on the peak number of the initial run.



So not much of a difference from the runs after the tune was loaded, BUT to be fair there were a few issues that my have prevented higher HP runs. More on that in a sec...

From what I recall of what Aric and Aron told me, the changes that were made were to timing (cam and spark), cooling (fan comes on sooner to try to keep it running cooler), and the closed looped to open loop fueling delay was removed. I could be wrong, but I don't think they have messed with fuel tables much yet; I believe there is some ECU logic they are still trying to figure out on this.

On the closed to open fueling delay, apparently there is a ~1500 RPM delay that the ECU uses to switch from closed loop to open loop fueling when going WOT... this is what causes the 'hesitation' that we notice when initially going WOT. They removed this delay; now when going WOT (or near WOT), it immediately switches to open loop. If you compare the pre-tune and post-tune run, you can see the initial increase in low end torque, then after about ~1500 RPM, they run about the same... that is the delay.



Also, they set the ecu to adjust timing over the entire rev range. By default, it made timing adjustments in the lower rpms, but stayed close to a set range in the upper rpms (I hope I explained that right) In the comparison graph, you can see torque pick up a bit around 4500 (likely from allowing the ecu to continue making timing adjustments), BUT my IATs were +40 over ambient so the ECU began pulling timing out. This is likely why there isn't much of a peak power difference between stock and tuned on the dyno. On the open road, I expect the difference to be more noticeable.. I'm thinking the IATs may not be as much of an increase over ambient. Now if it would just stop raining...
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #617
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Quote:
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You do know that dyno'ing in a lower gear could artificially raise the numbers because it's not a 1to1 comparison

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Right, which is why I said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by asting View Post
Remove the limiter and dyno in 4th, or just dyno in a lower gear with an asterisk saying only to compare against the tune.
Basically, the gain in peak appears to be mostly because they dyno'd in a gear where unfortunately the stock speed limiter kicks in. 99.9% of the time this wouldn't occur, and it isn't a true show of improvement.

As deesiel points out, there isn't that large of a difference in curves yet (at least from what I can gather).
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:21 PM   #618
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Diesel the sun is out and it's dry. GO PLAY!!!!
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #619
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Diesel the sun is out and it's dry. GO PLAY!!!!


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Old 05-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #620
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Here is a stock comparison of limiter vs no limiter


This is a comparison of tune vs stock without the limiter


Last but not least we can see another 1 HP gain when we make a pull with the hood up.
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