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Old 04-07-2013, 02:24 AM   #31
Deus Machina
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Nope, hadn't finished the timing belt yet because I'll need to be able to turn the crank to get to the stuck tool.

Silicone-only on the pan, then.

I removed the oil pump pickup tube, but I'm not removing the pump. At least not on purpose. I'm not even sure where it is in this motor, but as long as it's not in the way of the windage tray, I'm leaving it alone. Is it something I should be worried about moving unintentionally?
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:05 AM   #32
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No.

The pickup tube bolts onto it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:59 AM   #33
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Got to thinking..............don't know where I've meandered. The bottom steel oil pan to the center aluminum girdle or crankcase, uses silicone only, no gasket from the factory. The aluminum crankcase to iron engine block joint uses a gasket that can be bought. Don't use silicone there...........

Just clarifying, since I got confused myself on what I was telling you. Best way to sneak the aluminum crankcase up into the corner-get all bolts in and started a few threads, snug up all the bolts to the transmission and then back them off just enough (maybe one turn each) to allow the case to go UPWARD against the engine block, then tighten to engine block fully first and then transmission bolts last. That way trans bolts are close enough that tightening them does not crack off part of the case.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #34
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Got a flashlight and such underneath. Could see the timing tool and the way it bent through one of the windage tray holes.

It's bent away, and can't turn to point down. So I fab up a tool, basically a hook, reach up, hook it on no problem... and pull, and pry, and lever, and yank, and it just will not bend back down enough to even get it under the flat on the crankshaft to use it to bend it back into place.

So now I work on the windage plate, yup. Got all the mounting bolts out (I think) and it's stubbon, taking my time with the cat mount and that bearing mount... and literally any other way they could have mounted those on would have been better. Even just putting the bolts on the bottom instead of the top, where I have to hug a crossbar to get to it, and then for only a 3-degree turn on the wrench.

Whoever designed those mounts should be fired. From a cannon. Into the sun.

Anyone know the windage tray torque specs off hand?
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonbi View Post
Why are people still breaking the cams gears loose for a belt change!! There's no need at all! All your doing is asking for problems....set the cam bar, use the crank tool properly. ..slide off the old belt, on with the new belt...done! There's 10, 000 posts on here about timing, anyone planning on the DIY belt change should read them all!
This is terrible advice. I would never install a timing belt on a zetec without loosening the gears. When replacing the belt, the proper procedure is to always break gears loose. Ford wouldn't have this documented in both the SVT and normal Zetec engines if it weren't needed for a good reason.

Loosening the gears allows the new belt and gears to sit *exactly* where they want when its all put back together. Without loosening the gears you can get unsprung tension in the belt that will pull everything slightly out of time.

Besides, most zetecs didn't come with the timing perfect from the factory to begin with, this is your chance to get the timing just right. The amount of extra work to do things the right way is downright laughable. Break the cam gears loose, insert the timing bar into the cams, install the new belt, set the belt tension, torque the cam gears, and done.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:29 AM   #36
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LOL.

So, how do you time all the 50,000 other engines out there that DO NOT ALLOW any sprocket loosening at all? Sprockets that are keyed or locked in place................oftentimes on 10,000+ rpm engines?

Screw the Ford procedure, it allows partial tooth errors that are impossible if you do not loosen sprockets and can drive you crazy with VCT errors. I change belt all the time without loosening them.

If the car ran before, it will pretty much run after, all the work is to get the sprockets right back to where they were to begin with anyway. Loosening sprockets only makes that worse. Roll the engine around several times to seat the belt in the direction of rotation, recheck timing, and you will have no trouble, as with every other engine on the planet. If so on that one out of ten then you can loosen ONE but I wouldn't do the VCT one, it's locked to the cam tab that PCM reads.

One should look at how many times simply torquing one cam gear before the other can throw the timing off, dumb procedure done because they don't trust their mechs to think. They can't even give timing marks, that's how little they trust their people. Here use this tool, like a 4 year old. It just makes things worse in my view. Look at how many people have trouble when they loosen the sprockets.............
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:33 AM   #37
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'Besides, most zetecs didn't come with the timing perfect from the factory to begin with'

An oxymoron, the procedure would be used there of all places, doesn't say a whole lot for it does it?

'Without loosening the gears you can get unsprung tension in the belt that will pull everything slightly out of time.'

News flash, you're slightly out of time with it all sitting neutralized with sprockets loose. The engine pulls on the belt to turn it, you approach that state closer by turning engine in direction of rotation several rounds and then slow down when coming close to timing mark, but leave belt in its' slightly stressed state. Do not even think of rocking backwards. That is as close as you can get to true running condition and recheck timing marks and set tension there. Sprockets should already be tight (or never loosened, in my case). All slack then has been run to the tensioner so it can properly bite it. You lose every bit of that belt preload when paying attention to tightening sprockets, a mistake. You can be d-mn sure the motor is going to preload it though. The preload equalizes out through the belt train to make for the true running timing of all parts concerned. In my view one should be trying to get as close to that as possible, the Ford procedure does not even attempt it. Or, the reason for the factory errors.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:47 AM   #38
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I just did a remove/replace on my head 4 months ago and I didn't break the sprockets loose from the cams either. There is absolutely no good reason for doing this unless you had to replace a cam due to a flat spot or some such.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #39
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I can't even see how I'd break them loose. No wrench flats, no torque holes...

Basically, if the belt goes on, I'm leaving it alone for now. It ran rough before, but I'm better it was the belt stretching.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:14 PM   #40
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I used the starter to break it free and the concrete floor. It worked very well.
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