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Old 04-02-2013, 05:50 PM   #21
Deus Machina
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Well, looks like the oil pan extends to directly below this pin. I'll be breaking that loose and taking a look up inside tomorrow.
Right now, I've got the drain pulled and a drip pan under it. I'm going to leave it to drain overnight or until it looks like rain or dew, whichever comes first, because I don't have clean oil around.
I want as much as possible to drip out, because I'll be laying under it in a parking row.

Also, an aside: A stripped motor mount bolt (1 of 3, thankfully, and on the fender side) a screw missing from the middle timing belt cover, the oil pan and valve covers are glued in place with RTV... the guys that worked on this last were little more than drunken monkeys.

Not too upset about the sealant, though. I'll be doing about the same thing. $49 for a valve cover gasket on a student's budget is BS of the highest caliber.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:36 AM   #22
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You can get 'em for cheaper than that, I only pay like $20-$25.

Get that silicone squeezed out to drop in motor and you may well be walking quick, that thinking is no better than the drunken monkeys....................you'd be amazed how many blown engines I've pulled down only to find silicone stuck in very bad places.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:41 AM   #23
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The difference in my case being that I know to use as little as possible, and then only until I can get a set of gaskets in that aren't costing me an arm and a leg. It will just have to be that way until payday.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:21 PM   #24
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Alright, a little progress...
The oil pan didn't even have a gasket on it. The oil pump pickup gasket cracked in half when I was removing it. The plan is to buy a roll of gasket material (which I have, but disappeared now that I need it) and make gaskets for everything I need that is flat. Then I will barely need any sealant.
Nothing external was helping me remove that crank pulley. Strap wrench slipped, the old timing belt matched with vice grips to create a strap on the sprocket snapped the old belt, various handles and blocks bent.
It came down to shoving a 1/2" extension through a hole in the windage tray until I could brace it between the block and a crank counterweight to get enough force on it, and I was bending the extension by the time the bolt broke loose.
After that, the pulley wiggled right off.

Now I'm stuck removing the windage tray to get to that stuck tool, and everything is bolted on in my way. I've been unable to find a good how-to for that so far.

I really miss having a garage to work late in, and a friend more comfortable in it than I am.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:30 PM   #25
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Will make me be sure to double or triple check on that bolt when i time the engine.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:57 PM   #26
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Why are people still breaking the cams gears loose for a belt change!! There's no need at all! All your doing is asking for problems....set the cam bar, use the crank tool properly. ..slide off the old belt, on with the new belt...done! There's 10, 000 posts on here about timing, anyone planning on the DIY belt change should read them all!
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #27
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Why are people still breaking the cams gears loose for a belt change!! There's no need at all! All your doing is asking for problems....set the cam bar, use the crank tool properly. ..slide off the old belt, on with the new belt...done! There's 10, 000 posts on here about timing, anyone planning on the DIY belt change should read them all!
Crank pulley. I'm leaving the cam gears alone if at all possible. Unless they slipped, the reason it was out of time was a stretched belt.

Which I'm betting on, considering the dang thing broke, then came apart in at least two other places when I was pulling it out.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #28
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Why pull the crank pulley? Thinking the bottom comes off without doing that. You don't want to yank oil pump, getting it back on correctly requires a centering tool. I would just glue up the bottom of girdle like they did, gasket crush will not be even around the curves with a paper gasket and easily could leak. One place where silicone is better.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:36 AM   #29
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I pulled the crank pulley because I need to put a new timing belt on. The belt cover will not come off without removing the pulley.

I am not removing anything but the girdle/windage plate at this point unless absolutely necessary. I will even reuse the girdle gasket if I possibly can, because I just can't afford to buy anything else.

My thought on the oil pan was a fiber gasket with a thin layer of silicone. I've never run into a situation where that isn't better than silicone alone, but maybe this is the case now.

I looks like I may have to remove the cat so I can actually get the plate off, though. Again, will reuse gaskets it possible.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:13 AM   #30
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Oh, thought you were done with the timing belt.

Old school paper gasketed oil pans always used rubber ends, the reason is because the flat surface compression is not the same as on a curved surface. Where the notch area rises closer to vertical the paper gasket will not squeeze the same as the flats will, why the thicker rubber was used there.

You'll not get even paper gasket crush with that girdle. Your available paper gasket material is too thin, look at oldschool gaskets, much thicker, to again provide for that uneven squashing going on there. The squeeze varies all through the end curves. I'd be going silicone only, making dang sure the surface is bone dry, an issue when you drip oil for a week there.

The oil pump flat pan sealing surface is not level with the rest of engine block, off by maybe .015" to allow oil pump drive to be centered to not destroy pump, the reason for not removing oil pump unless necessary, it doesn't simply bolt up with no checking. Good chance of destroying it 5 minutes after startup. So see, no paper crush there at all. Silicone on it as a lube may allow it to easily blow out in a week. Siliconed paper gasket often moves if not pinched down hard.
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