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Old 06-11-2013, 02:12 AM   #51
goinloco1
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Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
I read a bit of this, some sense from some, but not much from others. Becomes very apparent who's bought a brand new Focus and who hasn't. Also who thought the car would be more than it really is.

I knew what I was buying, I knew what I was going to do with the car. I have zero complaints. In fact I bought another simply because mine was waring out. As much as I hate to admit it, I love the car.
Bought mine brand new in March '01 with 14 miles (8 of which were me test driving it).
Bought my second ('00), second hand with 48,xxx last July.
I've owned 3 in the last 10 years but after doing a couple 5000 mile trips in the 07, that was it. needed something more comfortable for travel and bought the fusion sport. but then came the st which I had my heart set on until I kicked tires and test drove for a few hours... what a complete let down, was just not what they hyped it to be at all. test drove a mustang and the st lost all favor. went to the sturgis mustang rally and that was it, ordered one.
of course still have the svt, which would smoke an st at half the boost
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:26 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by GreenEnvy View Post
hmmm, everything you said is laughable at best. you do realize the hp/tq numbers you keep talking grandios about the st only happen for a total of 20 seconds in overboost. yes, thats where the 254/270 comes from and is not maintained long. sorry to deflate your ego. and it seems looking at dynos for the st it picks up about 2k and runs out of steam just before 5k every time, dyno after dyno. care to see a v6 mustang dyno up to 7k? it doesn't fall off.
on your track theory, is that your wishful thinking or do you have an actual link somewhere?
by the way, I'd also like to see where you found your info on the drivetrain loss. I would like to see how you figure one is more than the other...
And if you've ever noticed any real performance car, they aren't well equiped. as a matter of fact, they are as basic as possible to keep them light (frs, lotus elise, etc), until you get into your luxury performance (the focus is far from this class)

Of course I ordered mine and it came in at 29,070. perf pack, cloth recaros, 102a, rpa&alarm system, manual trans. with incentives and such just shy of 25k out the door. and the pirelli p zeros stick like glue.
It was special ordered with alot deleted. at 3300lbs it weighs about what your st does...

but, I'll let this go. as everyone knows, no one can talk with someone like you that makes up their own facts...
Does anyone here know anything about cars? I'm beginning to wonder...

So let's start with the horsepower since you don't seem to quite grasp how that works.
A 3.7l Mustang makes approx 262whp & 238wtq. The horsepower peaks at 5800 RPM and the torque falls off at 5800 RPM until the 6800RPM redline where it makes 200wtq (Via Steeda)
A 2.0l Focus ST makes approx 230whp & 268wtq. The torque peaks at 2300RPM, falls to 230wtq when the hp peaks at 5300RPM, and continues to fall to the 6700RPM redline where it makes a meager 150wtq. (Via SCT)

From 2000RPM to 5500 RPM, the Focus makes more torque & horsepower than the Mustang. The Focus weighs approx 3190lb and the Mustang weighs in around 3350lb. The Focus ST has approx 10% drivetrain loss while the Mustang has around 14% loss.

And while I'm sure you're fingers are ready to start typing "overboost", 20 seconds of maximum power is more than you'll ever use in a track setting. Very very rarely will you be at full throttle longer than 20 seconds so you keep your comments to yourself. If you went full throttle in your Mustang for 20 seconds, you'd be bouncing off of the speed limiter at 115mph while a Focus ST continues to accelerate. If you decided to remove your speed limiter, you'd grenade the driveline at 130mph.

On a track, the ST is at a disadvantage in straight line performance because of it's gearing. However, in order to move faster than the Focus, the Mustang needs to be optioned with the 3.31 final drive ratio. ($2,000 option) The standard V6 has a 2.73 ratio that puts 1/4mile performance on par with the ST. The ST will outbrake the standard Mustang and can withstand more braking abuse, too.

With the performance pack, the Mustang and Focus are pretty evenly matched on grip with each pulling higher than 93g; the Focus with TC turned off and the Mustang with it's re-calibrated TC system.
MotorTrend Figure 8
Focus ST: 25.4 sec @ 0.70 g (avg)
2013 Mustang :25.4 sec @ 0.70 g (avg)

Streets of Willow times set by Randy Pobst:
2013 Focus ST: 1:29.27 (Via MotorTrend)
2013 Mustang V6: 1:29.09 (Via MotorTrend)

Nobody does calculated tests for Autocross but at a recent local event a Focus ST being raced for the first time ran the course in 55 seconds, and while there was no V6 Mustang present, the most similar vehicle present was a 2010 Camaro RS, driven by a seasoned driver, ran the course in 57 seconds. (I ran a 59.3 in my car, if anyone was curious )

So, for $29k, your Mustang is just barely out-performing a $25k Focus. For $29k, the Focus will be far better equipped than your Mustang while still achieving a higher EPA rating and is, quite frankly, a much more interesting car.

Don't get it twisted though, I love me some Mustang. I drove one for 8 years prior to getting a Focus. Tracked it, showed it, and put about 120k miles on it before it became incredibly impractical for my life. Someday I would like to be back in a Mustang but if I had to, I'd choose the ST over the Mustang. It is simply more car for the money.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:10 AM   #53
crazy_urn
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Originally Posted by 2.0 Focus View Post
They are not problems they are parts of these cars. I've driven a 05 Toyota matrix and everything just felt a bit more refined, from the ride to auto trans. Granted the matrix may have cost more when it was new.
The more you talk, the more you show your ignorance.

the issues you described were not issues for my car, they are not problem parts, I have not had any of the design flaws you are complaining about.

I think the problem is someone is looking at entry level econo boxes and expecting them to complete with much more expensive cars. You are comparing a car which base model started at $20,000 msrp, to a car whose base model started at $12,000 msrp. if you except the two cars to be on the same level, you simply do not know anything about cars.

Try comparing the focus to the cars that were in its class and price range at the time, i.e. the dodge neon, etc. and you will find that the focus all of the sudden looks like a much better car.

try comparing apples to apples, not apples to walruses.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:21 AM   #54
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Done.
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