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Old 06-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #31
crazy_urn
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Originally Posted by 2.0 Focus View Post
Why people don't like these cars? They have an uncomfortable ride, uncomfortable seats, extremely heavy steering, limited sound insulation and very noisy at highway speeds (wagon), heater is weak, a/c is weak, auto transmission shifting is horrible and has a mind of it own, not the best crash safety rating (but it is an old car), handbrake is weak as hell, sticking throttle body during winter (design flaw, non fixable), windshield always fogs up during winter (noticed its only on focuses) and abs cancels out front braking completely during winter.
I have none of these problems with my 03 sedan, even though it is ten years old. But I don't have an auto tranny, or ABS.

For the $11k I paid for mine new, I think I have gotten great value for the money.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
You seem.... misinformed. Maybe you haven't driven anything other than your own Focus and you're basing your opinion of all Focuses on that experience.

My 2011 Focus is quieter on the highway than some more expensive cars I've been in, its nicer inside than some more expensive cars I've been in, it's more fun to drive than most cars I've been in, The heater is hot, the a/c is cold, the stick-shift is solid, add up its 8 airbags and it's one of the safest vehicles in the compact class. My handbrake works fine, my defroster works fine, and my abs works fine. They must have fixed the throttle body as well because mine has never stuck in the winter.

If you're so clever with economics, why are you ranting on the internet instead of working for Ford???? I'm sure its absolutely as easy as you think it is.

The Focus ST is probably the best "hot hatch" in the world. What sub-$25k RWD sports car can even come close to outperforming the ST? You can't say FRS, because the ST has already outperformed it in more than one track test.
My AC and heated seats kick ass. I never noticed, or bothered to "rate" the qualities of my handbrake. I use it when I park. What other criteria is used to evaluate it?

The Focus ST is a poor value in light of the base Mustang. It just murders the ST and is cheaper.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #33
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The Focus ST is a poor value in light of the base Mustang. It just murders the ST and is cheaper.
Define "Murders"

The base V6 Mustang has horsepower, but it's a pretty terrible about everything else. It has slow highway gearing, no recaros, 4spkr radio, no gadgets, crummy tires.

If you option up a V6 Mustang to actually compete with the level of total performance offered by the ST, you'll be pushing $30k. r. You really can't compare them outside of actual performance numbers and they are really close. The Mustang has slightly better circuit track performance while the Focus shines in tighter autocross environments. Straight line performance is nearly identical base-to-base. The Focus has just a few less ft/lb of torque than the Mustang and the Mustang has more drivetrain loss than the Focus.

IMO, the Focus ST is a much better value than the Mustang because the ST base is still a well-equipped performance car whereas the Mustang isn't a performance car until you get the optional 3.31 gears.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
Define "Murders"

The base V6 Mustang has horsepower, but it's a pretty terrible about everything else. It has slow highway gearing, no recaros, 4spkr radio, no gadgets, crummy tires.

If you option up a V6 Mustang to actually compete with the level of total performance offered by the ST, you'll be pushing $30k. Not saying one car is a better value than the other. You really can't compare them outside of actual performance numbers and they are really close. The Mustang has slightly better circuit track performance while the Focus shines in tighter autocross environments. Straight line performance is nearly identical base-to-base. The Focus has just a few less ft/lb of torque than the Mustang and the Mustang has more drivetrain loss than the Focus.

IMO, the Focus ST is a much better value than the Mustang because the ST base is still a well-equipped performance car whereas the Mustang isn't a performance car until you get the optional 3.31 gears.
Most folks were getting the "Performace Package" V6's for just under $22k. I hit up the Ford site and even the sticker price of the base V6 with the Performance Package is only $24,990. The base ST comes in at $24,495. To avoid having to think about it, lets just say they cost the same.

I'm confident in almost every performance category the V6 PP will beat an ST. Plenty of V6 owners are in the 13 second range, and they handle great with the "PP" options. I really think it comes down to what kind of car you prefer, a "hot hatch" or a performance coupe that's RWD. I've owned both types of cars and see the appeal on each side of it. I really don't know what I'd choose between the two.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:26 PM   #35
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It's not the Focus's fault that Mustangs are a dime-a-dozen, or that dealers aren't budging on the MSRP for an ST...

I still feel that overall, the value of the ST is greater than that of a Mustang. I'm not speaking ill of either car because I, personally, love them both the same, but were I to go out and buy a brand new car right now it would be an ST.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:33 PM   #36
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Since I have joined the mazda forums, I've had a hard time explaining the focus to the mazda guys. To be honest except for the new ST nothing focus can stack up next to anything mazda. But to the honda, cavalier and what not guys. It's easy. Stiff chassis, great suspension design. Makes a great sleeper. Due to the stiff chassis it makes a great canadate for V8 RWD swaps.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
It's not the Focus's fault that Mustangs are a dime-a-dozen, or that dealers aren't budging on the MSRP for an ST...
Money is money. I don't really care if Mustangs are dime-a-dozen. I'm not buying priceless art, it's a car. The lower the price, the better.

There isn't much room to negotiate on the ST's, that's also why they're sitting on lots with a $28k sticker on an economy car.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #38
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Not sure how overpriced the st is , I was looking for a hatchback with more power then a base cars , sometimes that extra 100 horsepower I get from the st it's nice when I have to merge into traffic , I like how the turbo sounds, I like a sporty feel and like how I can turn off traction control off completely . What other option I have ? GTI , civic Si , mazdaspeed 3 , veloster turbo, I don't need all wheel drive so I would not pay 35k for an Sti.
I like how I can fold down my backseat and carry furniture or bigger items in my car . I like how easy is to park because its smaller car . I really don't want an rwd car in the snow belt where we can get a foot of snow overnight . Also what if it's little overpriced at least I support American workers and American business .
So what advantage mustang has over the St ? More power? But I don't go to drag races, and 150 extra horsepower is pointless in the Cleveland traffic when I sit in it for 35-40 minutes going 10 mph
Couple weeks ago I had 4 people in my car 4 luggage and everyone was confortable , my nephew fell a sleep in backseat , he said its really confortable leather seat
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by dieselboy77 View Post
Not sure how overpriced the st is , I was looking for a hatchback with more power then a base cars , sometimes that extra 100 horsepower I get from the st it's nice when I have to merge into traffic , I like how the turbo sounds, I like a sporty feel and like how I can turn off traction control off completely . What other option I have ? GTI , civic Si , mazdaspeed 3 , veloster turbo, I don't need all wheel drive so I would not pay 35k for an Sti.
I like how I can fold down my backseat and carry furniture or bigger items in my car . I like how easy is to park because its smaller car . I really don't want an rwd car in the snow belt where we can get a foot of snow overnight . Also what if it's little overpriced at least I support American workers and American business .
So what advantage mustang has over the St ? More power? But I don't go to drag races, and 150 extra horsepower is pointless in the Cleveland traffic when I sit in it for 35-40 minutes going 10 mph
Couple weeks ago I had 4 people in my car 4 luggage and everyone was confortable , my nephew fell a sleep in backseat , he said its really confortable leather seat
The price range is so wide on the ST that I don't know if it's overpriced for you. Invoice is $22,xxx on a base ST. At $22k it seems like an ok deal.

When I see the ST2's and ST3's for $28k, I want to vomit. A WRX starts at $25.8. The ST3 costs almost as much as a base Mustang GT, and that's not taking into account the GT price can be negotiated into the $27-28k range. I'm not saying the ST is a "bad" choice, it's a very interesting car. But once it jumps past it's base price, it simply isn't a value to me when other, better, cars can be bought for the same, or less, than an ST. If I were shopping for non-RWD, four door cars, and live in the snow belt, I'd be making a trip to Subaru, among others, just to compare.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
You seem.... misinformed. Maybe you haven't driven anything other than your own Focus and you're basing your opinion of all Focuses on that experience.

My 2011 Focus is quieter on the highway than some more expensive cars I've been in, its nicer inside than some more expensive cars I've been in, it's more fun to drive than most cars I've been in, The heater is hot, the a/c is cold, the stick-shift is solid, add up its 8 airbags and it's one of the safest vehicles in the compact class. My handbrake works fine, my defroster works fine, and my abs works fine. They must have fixed the throttle body as well because mine has never stuck in the winter.

If you're so clever with economics, why are you ranting on the internet instead of working for Ford???? I'm sure its absolutely as easy as you think it is.
The only thing is I was talking about the 99-07 models not the 09/10+. At that time they dropped the American version and brought in the European version over. Ford has brought in about 6/7 European models in the past 5 years, steadily dropping their American versions.

Cost cutting is evident in 99-07's. Looking at other ford's produced in that time period they are of better quality.

I've driven 3 99-07 focuses, old q56, nissan maxima (briefly), 2 chrysler pacifica's (very good car, even though Americans bashed it), mercdes s class, mercedes ml class, mercedes gl class, ford f150 lariat, f150 xlt, f150 fx2, ford fx2 (2012), some 05 chevy sedan, 2 different dodge caravans, Toyota sienna, Toyota matrix, very basic Toyota Tacoma, Toyota yaris, mustang gt 5.0, Hyundai genesis 3.8 auto, genesis manual, ram 1500, Honda ridgeline and nissan frontier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_urn View Post
I have none of these problems with my 03 sedan, even though it is ten years old. But I don't have an auto tranny, or ABS.

For the $11k I paid for mine new, I think I have gotten great value for the money.
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I don't have any of the problems you're mentioning here.
They are not problems they are parts of these cars. I've driven a 05 Toyota matrix and everything just felt a bit more refined, from the ride to auto trans. Granted the matrix may have cost more when it was new.

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My AC and heated seats kick ass. I never noticed, or bothered to "rate" the qualities of my handbrake. I use it when I park. What other criteria is used to evaluate it?

The Focus ST is a poor value in light of the base Mustang. It just murders the ST and is cheaper.
The problem I have with the handbrake is that it is too weak to stop the car from 30 mph in an emergency situation. There is not enough leverage to it. However this can be attributed to the weak rear brakes.
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