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Old 04-17-2014, 05:47 PM   #71
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The problems are that when people simply copy work, the odds of them actually understanding what they are doing are very low.
I can go online and watch a video of how to build a wooden chair. But if I don't understand how my weight plays into picking the thickness of the wood, I could easily build something that won't support me. 1/8" Balsa may work for someone, but not me.

It's the same thing with cars. Everything is a system and you have to understand how that system works to understand what changing one aspect of it does.
You copy someone's custom PCV setup and have problems, first thing you do is go to the internet for help. All the help you'll be able to get will just be 'could be's'. It's up to you to decide what it 'is'. But if you understood how the system worked, or should work, you'd not have any questions and could have repaired the misworkings already.

So it boils down to what you deem as learning and how you want to go about doing that. IMO, learning means that you have an understanding of how the thing works and are able to adapt that knowledge to other things.


copy/paste from another post I'd made,


Oil is heavier than air, correct?
The intake ports are above the inlet for the PCV, correct?

So then it should follow that the majority of the oil will fall to the bottom of the manifold, correct?
Meaning that it's going to take either a large amount of oil or an incline where the intake runners slope to the ports. Both of which basically can't happen, that is unless you're in a rollover.
Yes some oil vapor is sucked into the ports. But not enough where you'd see plumes of oil smoke out the back. That requires more oil through a more direct path, the valve stem seals or poor rings.
Least far as I've ever seen on a Focus.

Now the seal part is where the PCV comes into play. The purpose isn't to create vacuum on either end but to equalize the pressures. If there is a null balance there is noting to force oil down the seal and onto the valve. Any pressure in the port will force oil up, no smoke. So that leaves pressure in the valve cover as the only means to force oil past the seal.
Now if we agree that pressure does work and that null pressure can do no work, then we must also agree that during sustained WOT pressure in the intake and airbox are equal. That means there is nothing to move air through the crankcase except the natural pressure in the crankcase and any marginal blow-by. So essentially there is pressure in the crankcase.
And since I said only an imbalance in pressure can force oil past the seals and that a positive pressure in the valvecover is the only method by which that can happen, well we've just arrived at the answer.

The problem, from my experiments, is that the breather in the airbox is too stagnate. Things like a free flowing air filter only exacerbate the problem by lowering the vacuum in the airbox. There should be a marginal filter restriction to create a small vacuum in the box to create the needed imbalance of pressures.
The other option is to use Bernoulli's Principal and use a pilot tube into the intake tube, pre-throttle body and post MAF (to keep the MAF clean). A slant cut pilot tube, slant facing the throttle body, can create the needed partial vacuum.


A catchcan may have been a good fix for an Escort. But IIRC they also used a slightly different breather system than a Focus (single PCV and breather port in one). And in that type of setup during sustained WOT any oil forced out would pile up in the airbox. So giving it a point lower than the airbox and a volume change, and subsequent pressure drop, caused it to fall out of suspension and puddle in the catchcan.

Yes one can help on a Focus. But it's still not going to fix the imbalance of pressures. And if that is the cause oil will still be forced past the seals.




I mean no offense to anyone. I just want to make sure everyone understands how and why the system works or doesn't.




For a zetec, this is where the pressure imbalance in the crank case comes from. It has to do with the speed and position of the pistons, and it is why you feel a pulsing when you remove a fill cap or hear the PCV fluttering.

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Old 04-17-2014, 06:18 PM   #72
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I have pulled off over 100 SVT intake and about 250 Zetec intake and found anywhere from .5 to 3 inches of oil in the intakes , intake runners with over 1/8-1/4 inch or build up on the intake runners in the head

Most of the SVT that I turbocharge the first boost over 10psi and above 4000 looked like I blew the engine because the oil from the intake was forced into the engine and burned out

I took apart 3 MK3 engines to date and have found from HEAVY films of oil to about 1/4 inch of oil in the intakes all running engines in wrecked cars

Yes oil is heavier then air but the PCV systems Ford uses are crap and done work worth a darn

ANYONE with a Zetec engine or SVT or Duratec opens there TB an looks in will see oil some a LOT some a heavy film , its there , YES this oil gets sucked into the engine and causes lowered octane , build up on valves and intake ports and much much more

To each there own , Me I know the damage it does and the PCV system is one of the first thing that goes in my engines and all my customers engines that I build especially boosted

Tom
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:32 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
The problems are that when people simply copy work, the odds of them actually understanding what they are doing are very low.
I can go online and watch a video of how to build a wooden chair. But if I don't understand how my weight plays into picking the thickness of the wood, I could easily build something that won't support me. 1/8" Balsa may work for someone, but not me.

It's the same thing with cars. Everything is a system and you have to understand how that system works to understand what changing one aspect of it does.
You copy someone's custom PCV setup and have problems, first thing you do is go to the internet for help. All the help you'll be able to get will just be 'could be's'. It's up to you to decide what it 'is'. But if you understood how the system worked, or should work, you'd not have any questions and could have repaired the misworkings already.

So it boils down to what you deem as learning and how you want to go about doing that. IMO, learning means that you have an understanding of how the thing works and are able to adapt that knowledge to other things.
The problem is, my Google search on the PCV system for the mk3 resulted in very little information. I have a understanding of how pcv systems work in general. If you read my older posts i stated my previous car was a Mini Cooper S. Those engines have very bad issues with carbon build up on the intake valves due to the pcv system. I learned a lot from messing around with that car and i had a custome pcv setup i did myself on that car. I have very little knowledge on the TI-VCT engine, hence why i turned to the forum to learn from people who may have more experience. I agree that you have to do the work and get your hands dirty to truely understand how things work but the internet can be a very helpfull tool to point you in the right direction or help you realize something you may not have seen. My whole point is that it is not necessary to make rude comments and put people down who are just trying to learn.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:36 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
... The big reason engines dont have "road breathers" any longer is because of the oil , water that come out of then and got on the roads and Hwy ways , the air that comes out does very little harm ...
Where did you hear that? It's the opposite of what I recall reading back when the laws requiring positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) were enacted. There was some problem with emissions caused by the volatility of oil and the byproducts of combustion that blow by the piston rings that contributed to the formation of smog and were harmful to breath, if I recall correctly.

Whether that's true or not, if, as you say, it "does very little harm" for us all to breath the stuff, how could it be harmful for a car engine to breath it? Or vice versa?

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I am not a tree hugger either ... I vented mine , for every one that doesnt like this being done , plant a tree lol
I'm not even sure whether those are the kind of emissions that planting trees would help with. I recall large rows of huge trees along the sides of Highway 17 through San Jose dying from the smog before car emission laws went into effect, and later recovering as the smog was reduced.

Either way, I have planted quite a few trees myself, but not because I think they'll help "the environment" in any way. I just like the way they look. And I lied earlier. I now recall that I did once hug one of them -- very tightly -- when I slipped and almost fell out of it while pruning it. Not the same thing, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
... I vent mine and recommend that everyone vents there out of the intake ...
I may be paranoid (it's not paranoia if "they" really are out to get you), but if I were to do what you suggest I would not admit it in such a public forum as you have done here. Especially if I had a business that "they" could come after. Some real tree-huggers might read it and get a bug up their bottom about making you pay for it. You know how those people can be.

If you doubt that, read up on what the Gibson Guitar Company had to go through for years, or what Katherine Engelbrecht is still dealing with today. I'll leave it at that before I violate the rules about not discussing politics (if I haven't already).

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Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
... The only difference between you and me is I have the balls to say I am doing it ...
And "they" have a very large vise they'll be happy to put those balls in. Think "IRS". Be safe out there, Tom, and don't give up your protections under the Fifth Amendment. (PM me if you want me to edit anything out of your quotes in this comment, but it's probably too late. The internet remembers everything.)
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:41 PM   #75
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Let's all just take a break for a bit and calm down. Good. Let's have a moment of silence and remember AlGore. He invented the internet and without him, we wouldn't be having this awesome intercourse. Ok. Back to our regularly scheduled program. I'd like to send Tom a big fruit basket.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:39 PM   #76
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I would like to see pictures of the said valves with carbon buildup. I am genuinely concerned about this issue. Anyone got any boroscope photos?
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:15 AM   #77
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I would like to see pictures of the said valves with carbon buildup. I am genuinely concerned about this issue. Anyone got any boroscope photos?
How many miles do you have on yours now?
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:38 AM   #78
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A few have reported in from near the 100,000 mile mark without any problems from carbon build up.

Small sample so far, but as some have mentioned a number of cars from other manufacturers have experienced problems sooner.

NOT seeing it reported yet is a good sign...
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:00 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
There was some problem with emissions caused by the volatility of oil and the byproducts of combustion that blow by the piston rings that contributed to the formation of smog and were harmful to breath if I recall correctly.

Whether that's true or not, if, as you say, it "does very little harm" for us all to breath the stuff, how could it be harmful for a car engine to breath it? Or vice versa?
Its harmful to the engine because it can lower the octane , cause build up on the valves and intake runners , build up in the intake which could cause spk knock / detonation, loss of performance , smoke under had acceleration , fowling of the plugs YES YES I KNOW some of these may be extreme and some will take long time to do but its starting ......now !

The rest of your opinions I can respect and I thank you for your input !

Tom
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:06 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Kjanracing View Post
Let's all just take a break for a bit and calm down. Good. Let's have a moment of silence and remember AlGore. He invented the internet and without him, we wouldn't be having this awesome intercourse. Ok. Back to our regularly scheduled program. I'd like to send Tom a big fruit basket.
Tom likes these LOL http://www.ediblearrangements.com/fr...D=46&Section=1
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