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Old 03-09-2013, 10:10 AM   #1
c5karl
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Ti-VCT and the engine holding the car on an incline

I've got a '13 SE hatchback with a standard transmission. I've noticed strange behavior while sitting in line at a drive-through or otherwise waiting temporarily with the engine off and the car in gear.

On even a slight incline, when the engine is shut off and the transmission is in first gear, the car moves -- not steadily, but with an occasional lope/lunge of perhaps only a fraction of an inch. It's slight but very perceptible. It doesn't matter if I'm on the rising or falling side of the hill; the car moves both forwards and backwards depending on where it's sitting.

In an old-fashioned car, I'd worry that the engine has bad compression. But I'm thinking that perhaps the variable-valve timing is a contributing factor, and that the car is behaving as designed.

Is there a problem with my engine? Or should I not sweat it? I'd feel better about it if I had an explanation of what's happening. (And don't tell me to ask the service department at the dealer; I don't trust them to tell me the correct time.)

Caveat for those with the 5-speed: Don't forget to set your parking brake when parking on even the shallowest hills. This is a tough one for me, because I'm not in the habit of using a parking brake on level ground.


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Old 03-09-2013, 10:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c5karl View Post
I've got a '13 SE hatchback with a standard transmission. I've noticed strange behavior while sitting in line at a drive-through or otherwise waiting temporarily with the engine off and the car in gear.

On even a slight incline, when the engine is shut off and the transmission is in first gear, the car moves -- not steadily, but with an occasional lope/lunge of perhaps only a fraction of an inch. It's slight but very perceptible. It doesn't matter if I'm on the rising or falling side of the hill; the car moves both forwards and backwards depending on where it's sitting.

In an old-fashioned car, I'd worry that the engine has bad compression. But I'm thinking that perhaps the variable-valve timing is a contributing factor, and that the car is behaving as designed.

Is there a problem with my engine? Or should I not sweat it? I'd feel better about it if I had an explanation of what's happening. (And don't tell me to ask the service department at the dealer; I don't trust them to tell me the correct time.)

Caveat for those with the 5-speed: Don't forget to set your parking brake when parking on even the shallowest hills. This is a tough one for me, because I'm not in the habit of using a parking brake on level ground.
I'm not sure if the standard transmission Foci have the Hill Hold feature but maybe that could be it

The TI-VCT system I don't think could do this but im not an expert on this. From what I can tell its like Honda's VTEC system but its a constant system rather than having a set switch over point. Which should only affect things while the engine is running.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:07 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by c5karl View Post
I've got a '13 SE hatchback with a standard transmission. I've noticed strange behavior while sitting in line at a drive-through or otherwise waiting temporarily with the engine off and the car in gear.

On even a slight incline, when the engine is shut off and the transmission is in first gear, the car moves -- not steadily, but with an occasional lope/lunge of perhaps only a fraction of an inch. It's slight but very perceptible. It doesn't matter if I'm on the rising or falling side of the hill; the car moves both forwards and backwards depending on where it's sitting.

In an old-fashioned car, I'd worry that the engine has bad compression. But I'm thinking that perhaps the variable-valve timing is a contributing factor, and that the car is behaving as designed.

Is there a problem with my engine? Or should I not sweat it? I'd feel better about it if I had an explanation of what's happening. (And don't tell me to ask the service department at the dealer; I don't trust them to tell me the correct time.)

Caveat for those with the 5-speed: Don't forget to set your parking brake when parking on even the shallowest hills. This is a tough one for me, because I'm not in the habit of using a parking brake on level ground.
One possibility is clutch slippage although you seem convinced that the engine is turning.

I'm not in the habit of using the parking brake in my garage but I almost always use it when I park the car anywhere else.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:25 PM   #4
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my 6spd auto and it does this
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:56 PM   #5
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If you are talking about the car moving forward or backward when an incline, after you stop it and put it in P, I think it is normal. Simple physics. It acts as any MT car act when on an incline. I know all my other cars (MT) did this. My DCT does it too, this is why I use first the hand brake then I put it on P. I did this for more than 10 years now, since I put my first "remote start" in my MT equipped car. In the MT equipped cars, the transmission must be in neutral if you want the remote start to work. So, not a biggy for me and you should not worry.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:47 AM   #6
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Perhaps, if it's the following scenario:
-Stop on slight incline (forward or backwards)
-"Hill hold" feature automatically engages
-Engine is shut-off, transmission in 1st (manual) and clutch released.
-Parking brake is NOT yet engaged.

I suspect that shortly after the engine is shut-off, the "hill hold" feature may disengage, allowing the weight of the car (rolling fwd/back) to rest on the drivetrain like a typical older vehicle. This would explain the barely perceptible movement.

If there's an occasional heavy lurch to it, this is probably when the combination of the incline and slight drivetrain slack being taken up results in just enough momentum to push the engine past compression on one (or two) cylinders.

Even though they are high compression, these are 2.0 engines ( ie - SMALL), so I wouldn't think this is abnormal.

Just my $.02
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:59 AM   #7
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According to ford the 5MT cars don't have hill start assist, so it can't be any sort of hill holder function, unless its there and they just don't tell people about it.

Only the DCT comes with this feature that keeps the brakes engaged for up to two seconds after the foot pedal is released to allow the driver to accelerate up a hill without rolling backwards.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:48 PM   #8
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Does the ford dct have a parking lock like the dodge version does?

All my manual cars have moved slightly when I initially stop and don't use the parking brake. The automatics I've had also move a little. I'm not worried about it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:56 PM   #9
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Does the ford dct have a parking lock like the dodge version does?

All my manual cars have moved slightly when I initially stop and don't use the parking brake. The automatics I've had also move a little. I'm not worried about it.
Yes there is a parking pawl/ gear, but the owners guide still stresses that you need to use the hand brake when stationary. It makes me mad to get into the car after an oil change when they park the car and don't set the hand brake.

The clutches are both disengaged and the only thing holding the car in place is the parking lock which may fail if put under too much stress. If the pseudo parking lock/ gear fails with the hand brake not set the car will roll away like a manual with the clutch applied, or in too high a gear with the hand brake off and the engine off. (i.e. in 3rd the resistance to motion is much less than it is in 1st gear while stationary due to the lowered torque multiplication of the higher gear).
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:45 PM   #10
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my 6spd auto and it does this
REALLY!!??? the 'automatic' should not move w/ it in park and engine off... Mine doesn't move at all....
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