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Old 03-09-2013, 10:59 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by GhiaFan View Post
My guess would be the next Edge, seeing that Ford will introduce the redesigned Edge in Europe.

So it makes sense the new Edge which is due sometime in 2014 will be a vehicle Ford could choose to use on both sides of the pond with the 2.0 TDCi.
I would think of the outputs offered here for the 2.0 TDCi - 140hp & 163hp, the 163hp will be the choice for North America.
Would be interesting.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:05 PM   #82
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Yeah, the ULSD went into effect in 07 in the USA. It also lowers fuel economy. That I didn't know, but should've expected. Now BD is probably completely different. Everyone I know who makes BD gets more power and better fuel economy- this is using the same method to remove glycerides as you would use to make lamp oil back in the day (alcohol, NaOH= lamp oil + lye soap). Someone else tells me that all you need to do is use a fine filter to clean the BD oil, and that's all you need to do. Not everyone owns a convenience store that sells fried foods, and has 20 gallons of waste peanut oil per week. I've often wondered why BD production didn't take off. I read about algae, canola, and nothing ever happened. IIRC, it was one of those things where it wouldn't be economically viable until prices were over $3/gal. Ummm...

"I tell you all, you beware! I don't think they really care. I think they just sit up there and just get high!" Things Goin' On, Lynyrd Skynyrd.
BD and vegi oil are completely different. My Jeep came from the factory with BD in it. You have to have a special system to run vegi oil. When the Jeep CRD came out is 2005, a bakery in Seatle bought a couple of CRD'd and converted them from the get go to run used vegi oil and as delivery vehicles. Several folks on the CRD forums have done the conversion. More so in Europe. BD you can buy at the pump, if it is available in your area. The closest I have it 10% BD. DFW area has several stations that offer BD. Try using an app like Gas Buddy to find BD near you. ;)
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:20 AM   #83
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I should give you more credit as a Airline Pilot, but for some reason I can't. As a J8(Bombardier CRJ700/900) user, this should all be second nature to you. Most of the pilots I know drive diesels, one I know in FL has a Jeep just like mine. спасибо
I'm no longer on the CR7/9 after having transitioned to the E170/175 in December. As for diesel-driving pilots, I know a few, but they're certainly nowhere near the majority. That's not to say pilots don't like diesels, more that, like myself, most of them probably have no use for one.

I've never heard or seen the CR7/9 family referred to as J8, that's a new one.

Незачто.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:34 AM   #84
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$8 for an extra liter of Mobile 1 5W40 ESP with MB 119.51 cert.

Filter from NAPA is like $8-10 same as for the Foci

Similar KJ with the 3.7L gas are getting well below mine and other CRD KJ's in the towing field and cannot come near the 7700lbs. Even if you did 5000lbs the 3.7 per folks reporting on the KJ forum are only getting 12mpg at best, while the CRD folks are reporting between 20-23mpg. The 3.7 is know to have overheating issues with this type of weight as the CRD does not. I'm currently driving a 2012 KK 3.7 and it is getting HALF the MPG my KK was getting and i'm trying to baby it.
Well, I know my diesel engine has 15 quarts of oil, and the gasser what, 5 or 6? More than double. Oil changes 39 dollars at Ford for focus, 109 for my PowerStroke. Your numbers, if accepted, only work in the "charitable" scenario I posted above.

Last night I drove a 130 mile trip here in Louisiana (flat land) in my Focus and got 41.2 mpg on the round trip, and that's with a couple miles at the other end of the trip in town. Filled up at the station by the on ramp, filled up at same spot getting off the interstate when I got home. So you have to get better than 55 with that diesel to come up with the same numbers. I beat my 35 estimate by 6, so you can say that I just took away your cost advantage at 55 mpg altogether.

You claim ~800 for the diesel engine option and only about 10 bucks for the oil changes. so it's 1000 instead of 2800, giving you that, you still are going to have to come up with a diesel engine that gets nearly 60 mpg to make this work, not 60 on paper, 60 in real life, like I get 41 in real life with my focus. I'm not doing tensor calculus here. It's just basic story problem stuff from elementary school, so there's no "tricksy hobbitses" hidden in here. I am unconvinced by your assertions of savings as having a basis in anything other than perception. You like diesels, I encourage you to enjoy them. I am sorry to have mine ever since the sulphur oppression came down the pike. Vacationing with my Truck and RV has been financially painful ever since, especially since it isn't much good as a daily driver, fuel costs are 4x my car -- AND especially considering the 8500 dollars extra a PowerStroke diesel costs over the standard V8 in the truck. Consumer vehicles with diesel engines make no sense.

I'm not even going to begin to discuss the laws you more than likely broke doing north of 5 tons with that diesel Jeep of yours, but I'd bet a dollar to a donut you would have been fined way more than anything it has ever saved you, real or imagined, had you been caught. Being able to pull something because your engine will do it doesn't make it the right thing to do. Maybe it is rated for that GVW, but I would be surprised if it is. However, you have touched on the sensible use of the diesel engine: Heavy lifting. Trucks, locomotives, Dutch poulder pumps. Other than that, diesel schmiesel, as far as I am concerned.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #85
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Again you are comparing your powerstoke and not a small displacement diesel. What laws did I break? No laws were broken and everything was towed in a safe manner, I have been towing trailers for more than 30 years. Automotive and tractor trailers. 4128 is what the Jeep weighs, the towing is rated to 7700 so I am well within the max weight on GVW towing. Again no laws broken.

Try comparing the MPG for the VW Jetta/Golf TDI and you will get your numbers. Like all diesels, they need mileage on them to start getting good MPG/LPH numbers and as they get more broken in, the numbers continue to increase. That's why owners of KJ CRD's like mine are able to hyper mile and get 600 miles on a 19.5 gallon tank, I personally have been able to get 500 a couple of times but I drive differently.

You keep comparing v8 diesel figures and not i4 or v6 diesel info. Start doing some research and understanding there are other diesels out there besides Powerstroke, Duramax and Cummings. Anyone that knows power generation will know the engines that are being used in mid sized vehicles. VM and Pentastar have been building commercial engines for years in all types of applications.

BTW my 2.8 takes 6 liters of oil and gets changed every 6,000 miles. All the filters can be bought at any auto parts store by I prefer napa gold/wix filters.

Take some time to research the vast amount of Diesel engines that are in production world wind instead of what is at the local dealer. A good bit of those vehicles sold elsewhere with Diesel engine options are manufactured her in the US and exported.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:36 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
$8 for an extra liter of Mobile 1 5W40 ESP with MB 119.51 cert.

Filter from NAPA is like $8-10 same as for the Foci

Similar KJ with the 3.7L gas are getting well below mine and other CRD KJ's in the towing field and cannot come near the 7700lbs. Even if you did 5000lbs the 3.7 per folks reporting on the KJ forum are only getting 12mpg at best, while the CRD folks are reporting between 20-23mpg. The 3.7 is know to have overheating issues with this type of weight as the CRD does not. I'm currently driving a 2012 KK 3.7 and it is getting HALF the MPG my KK was getting and i'm trying to baby it.
Quote:
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Again you are comparing your powerstoke and not a small displacement diesel. What laws did I break? No laws were broken and everything was towed in a safe manner, I have been towing trailers for more than 30 years. Automotive and tractor trailers. 4128 is what the Jeep weighs, the towing is rated to 7700 so I am well within the max weight on GVW towing. Again no laws broken.

Try comparing the MPG for the VW Jetta/Golf TDI and you will get your numbers. Like all diesels, they need mileage on them to start getting good MPG/LPH numbers and as they get more broken in, the numbers continue to increase. That's why owners of KJ CRD's like mine are able to hyper mile and get 600 miles on a 19.5 gallon tank, I personally have been able to get 500 a couple of times but I drive differently.

You keep comparing v8 diesel figures and not i4 or v6 diesel info. Start doing some research and understanding there are other diesels out there besides Powerstroke, Duramax and Cummings. Anyone that knows power generation will know the engines that are being used in mid sized vehicles. VM and Pentastar have been building commercial engines for years in all types of applications.

BTW my 2.8 takes 6 liters of oil and gets changed every 6,000 miles. All the filters can be bought at any auto parts store by I prefer napa gold/wix filters.

Take some time to research the vast amount of Diesel engines that are in production world wind instead of what is at the local dealer. A good bit of those vehicles sold elsewhere with Diesel engine options are manufactured her in the US and exported.
You're the one who needs to research -- and find me a 60 mpg diesel engine on a car the size of a focus. Math is math.

I did allow perhaps your jeep wasn't overloaded, and if it wasn't, that's fine. I see a "Jeep" in my minds eye towing a huge trailer. You must have a large model jeep, and that's why I said I wasn't going to go very far with that.

I'm citing my experience because it is just that: experience. I know what I know at the "one ton" level, and know what that engine has cost me when it was purchased to "save money". Pie in the sky is what it turned out to be, and you're talking pie in the sky with these smaller diesel engines. Don't claim they're out there and then tell me to do the research to find it. You're the one making gratuitous claims, and I just as gratuitously dismiss them. You give me the example of a model of car, anywhere in the world, that proves YOUR thesis. I have substantiated mine.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:34 PM   #87
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A different way of demonstrating the facts...

From a previous post:

100,000 miles at 39 mpg takes 2,564.1 gallons at $3.45 for $8,846 in fuel costs.

That is actually less than my veridical highway mileage, but it is the EPA estimate for my Focus.

So, for Diesel, at $3.99, that same amount of money would buy 2217 gallons. Over 100,000 miles, the diesel would have to get 45.1 mpg. That's almost exactly what the most economical diesel, non-hybrid car of comparable size gets (Jetta TDI). So, even IF you paid not a dime more for maintenance or purchase, the best scenario is that they cost almost the same amount to drive, only considering fuel costs. Meanwhile, I get the instant throttle response (fun to drive) of a NA gas engine, not a turbo-laggy diesel. I don't have to wear a rubber suit to pump fuel or go to Ruth's Chris smelling like a truck stop, either. No arguments about towing will hold water here, I don't buy smallish sedans or hatchbacks to tow trailers. You want to talk towing, then lets talk light trucks, like, oh, gee, my F350 with the PowerStroke.

There just isn't any compelling reason to go with diesel until they get about 60 mpg in a Focus-sized platform. Then the savings become significant. When that happens, I'll reconsider.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:49 PM   #88
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Start doing some research and understanding there are other diesels out there besides Powerstroke, Duramax and Cummings.

Take some time to research the vast amount of Diesel engines that are in production world wind instead of what is at the local dealer. A good bit of those vehicles sold elsewhere with Diesel engine options are manufactured her in the US and exported.
I hope you mean Cummins (no g) and worldwide, not world wind.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:43 PM   #89
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Gotta love the iPhone spell check.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPsDad View Post
From a previous post:

100,000 miles at 39 mpg takes 2,564.1 gallons at $3.45 for $8,846 in fuel costs.

That is actually less than my veridical highway mileage, but it is the EPA estimate for my Focus.

So, for Diesel, at $3.99, that same amount of money would buy 2217 gallons. Over 100,000 miles, the diesel would have to get 45.1 mpg. That's almost exactly what the most economical diesel, non-hybrid car of comparable size gets (Jetta TDI). So, even IF you paid not a dime more for maintenance or purchase, the best scenario is that they cost almost the same amount to drive, only considering fuel costs. Meanwhile, I get the instant throttle response (fun to drive) of a NA gas engine, not a turbo-laggy diesel. I don't have to wear a rubber suit to pump fuel or go to Ruth's Chris smelling like a truck stop, either. No arguments about towing will hold water here, I don't buy smallish sedans or hatchbacks to tow trailers. You want to talk towing, then lets talk light trucks, like, oh, gee, my F350 with the PowerStroke.

There just isn't any compelling reason to go with diesel until they get about 60 mpg in a Focus-sized platform. Then the savings become significant. When that happens, I'll reconsider.
Again load your small car down with groceries and kids and your mpg start falling off. Weight is just that no matter if it is in a trailer or packing the family up for Christmas at grandma's house 1000 miles away, everyone knows that you get your pAyback on small diesels is long distance. The rest of the world knows this, just the US consumer didn't. Running around with blinders on.

Put 4 adults in you car and take a 500 mile road trip and see how far your MPG goes down. There is a reason why most taxis is Europe are diesel, they understand that under load diesel is the better fuel.

Why would you go to dinner smelling like fuel? Do you use it as cologne? Deodorant? I have tanked many times and never came away smelling like fuel. Only time I smell it on me is when I forget to use my gloves and then it's only on my hands.

The CRD owners of the US have been comparing our MPG compared to the gas folks since 2005 and even the gasser folks will admit the CRD folks are getting way better MPG than they are. CRD folks can get the rated MPG and then some the gasser folks can only get close.

Again buy a small displacement diesel and do your own testing. We used to have a 1978 rabbit diesel and we beat the hell out of it and it never returned less that 45mpg. Most of he time it got between 53-55 mpg, far better than my 77 camaro v8 at 17mpg.

Turbo lag? You might want to have that checked, I have little to none. 160hp and 295ftlb is plenty if power even to out run a gasser. 177/335 is where mine is and no where near the one in MI is, 200/410.

Again I have driven diesel from all over the world from small Smart cars to 80,000lb Army trucks on road and off road. Power generators from 7kw to 1.1 MW to misc cranes, dozers and forklifts. I have real world experience on diesels from 2 cylinders to v16 turbo diesels.

Don't knock it until you actually try it.
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