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Old 02-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #31
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:49 PM   #32
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Nice old Jeep, I bet it was high nose originally... perhaps originally ran long hood forward, too!
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #33
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Similar concept, but trains are another beast probably better handled by monorail because of the uneccesary friction and drag casued by wheels now being irrellevant now that we have maglev. The concept I'm talking about is more closely related to the last generation of pre-nuclear, diesel-electric submarines. I'm uncertain if such a sub ever went into production, but I know the soviets toyed around with the concept before their nucelar plants were stable.

For a lightweight, areodynamic car two electric motors without transmissions or the irrellevant front brakes (the motors can also handle braking) I'd think a properly configured 100% diesel power plant car w/o batteries would slaughter all current hybrids in both efficiency and performance. I'd be sad to give up tranny control, but that can be simulated. Electric motors get full torque at 0RPMs, and with the only interfereance between crank torque and wheel torque being drag and unsprung weight --we're talking mad accelleration.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #34
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:p



Little more famous D-E



Current PRODUCTION vehicles for outside the US.
Volkswagen Golf TDI Hybrid
Mercedes-Benz E-Class E300 BlueTEC hybrid
Peugeot 3008 Crossover with HYbrid4 technology
Volvo V60 plug-in diesel hybrid
CitroŽn DS5 with Hybrid4 drive
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #35
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:p



Little more famous D-E



Current PRODUCTION vehicles for outside the US.
Volkswagen Golf TDI Hybrid
Mercedes-Benz E-Class E300 BlueTEC hybrid
Peugeot 3008 Crossover with HYbrid4 technology
Volvo V60 plug-in diesel hybrid
CitroŽn DS5 with Hybrid4 drive
IIRC all of those still have transmissions and none uses an entirely electric drivetrain. The *closest* vehicle to what I'm talking about is an Audi R18, but it's still not the same concept at all.

What I'm talking about is probably just future tech, and may never be implemented for a variety of reasons. Even Tesla's Roadster uses a transmission (albeit a rather efficient single speed box) and a single engine. What I'm essentially talking about is taking an electric car, pulling out the batteries, and shoving a diesel power plant in it's place. There are dozens of fuels which will work with compression motors, and it avoids the enviornmental problems that current hybrids all have (batteries are dirty to make and wear out too quickly).
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:59 PM   #36
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Ford annouced a while back that there would be a 3.2 TDCi and a 2.0 TDCi released in the US.

Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0CRD

Dodge Ram 3.0 CRD

Mazda 6 CTDi I think it is called

Audi, BMW and MB announced at NAIAS that they would all be expanding thier diesel offerings

I said 2 years ago that 2013 would be the year of the diesel flood and so far it looks to be that way.
I'll dig up the link, but VW's head of the .:R department was saying that VW is going to expand their .:R line beyond the Golf --and that it was almost set in stone that the next gen .:Rs would be turbodiesel --and lighter than any of the previous .:Rs. There is also a rumor of a GTD release in the US (it's about damn time for the GTD to leave the EU TBH.)

With Volvo's Polestar devision looking seriously at diesel too, my next car will likely be a diesel hothatch. That said, I'm not ditching this Golf any time soon. My wife gets the car --and it's modded out the arse and I already put 20K on it this year. Resale value on it would suck, so maybe I'll make it a track car and get something kid friendly and hot hatchey when I pay it off...

BTW --my wife ONLY wants a TDI Cup Jetta because Ford won't bring the ecoboost turbodiesel Fiesta here. That's two sales they would have made if they'd bring their full EU complement of hatchbacks to the US. I'm a Ford guyN but they just won't sell me what I want!
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:09 PM   #37
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IIRC all of those still have transmissions and none uses an entirely electric drivetrain. The *closest* vehicle to what I'm talking about is an Audi R18, but it's still not the same concept at all.

What I'm talking about is probably just future tech, and may never be implemented for a variety of reasons. Even Tesla's Roadster uses a transmission (albeit a rather efficient single speed box) and a single engine. What I'm essentially talking about is taking an electric car, pulling out the batteries, and shoving a diesel power plant in it's place. There are dozens of fuels which will work with compression motors, and it avoids the enviornmental problems that current hybrids all have (batteries are dirty to make and wear out too quickly).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._MBTA_Boat.jpg
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #38
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Now you're just trolling...
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #39
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Now you're just trolling...
This coming from someone who just joined up in July!!

Most of the vehicles in the picture are either dual-mode diesel electric, full electric or LNG. Note the trackless trolley bus in the center photo is full electric.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #40
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Electric vehicles like the Tesla use a transmission because they use AC motors. DC motors are the ones used in trains that have 100% torque at 0 rpm. AC motors are more like IC engines, and build torque. It builds faster, but still must build.

Why not do DC? DC motors must have commutator rings, and must have brushes. Under heavy load, these will suffer loss of power due to heat. In the electric conversion world, they will tell you that DC motors will slow down going uphill. Also, to have regen braking you need DC to DC converters, but with AC no specialized electronics are required. DC motors also have rpm issues that AC motors don't have as a result of the brushes and commutator rings. Trains do it- yes, but train motors are monstrously oversized, and use transmissions.

AC motors don't require brushes, although those that have brushes, and an electromagnet core have much better low rpm torque numbers making them suitable replacements for DC motors. A hybrid motor was developed along this line by Swiss company Brusa. I don't know how this one works, but since it's listed as an AC motor, I would think it would be a combination squirrel cage (electromagnet) and permanent magnet motor with some sort of centrifugal switch and mechanical arm that disengages the brushes at 4k rpm or so. That one would be able to do it without a transmission, and is advertised as such. Still- it's large, so one for a set of 2 wheels would probably work.

If you hadn't guessed, brushes are something you probably want to avoid in your electric car motor. This is a part that will suffer reduced efficiency when hot, and will wear out eventually. It will also wear out the point where it makes contact, so these parts will have to be accessible for replacement. The best idea, is to forgo brushes entirely, use a permanent magnet AC motor + gear reduction, and oversize it for the vehicle's weight. That's the Tesla formula.

Now, I'd think someone could make a Tesla-like vehicle using a Brusa motor and a custom battery- or our previous discussed power-plant. You could probably also do a good deal with squirrel cage motors even though those would need to have brush replacement factored into the equation. I'll bet that's what Mercedes did with 4 motors on their electric SLS. Wheels don't have to turn many rpm to make mph- especially 30" overall diameter wheel/tire combos. 6.14x15=92.1" per rev, 5280x12=63360 /92.1=688 rpm for 60 mph.

Well hell- that works right? Sure it does, and it's been done, but only with what's listed above, and that's why it's not been produced. True enough, even a single drive gear needs to be replaced at some point, and so that point can be made as well- however brushes will need to be replaced more often. Kudos to ya, I'd certainly like to see someone use a squirrel cage AC motor driving 2 wheels with no reduction powered by a 2 cyl, 2 stroke diesel, and a generator. I'm not quite sure which is heavier though the generator + engine + fuel or the batteries. You'd need a hefty generator.
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