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Old 03-19-2013, 12:40 PM   #151
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This place needs a "like" button.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:40 PM   #152
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Here's a photo taken earlier today by a FB friend in California:



Diesel 93 cents a gallon more than regular.

Not rocket science to figure out that math.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:45 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by bball40dtw View Post
Yes, this is true. But you can get a Silverado cheaper than the next Frontier package up. The Silverado will also get the same, or better (Frontier V6), gas mileage. Pay no attention to large truck MSRP. In many cases, the Tundra and Titan end up being cheaper than the Frontier and Tacoma.
Maybe in purchase price but you have to also look at OPERATING COSTS for the trucks as well(fuel,maintenance,insurance,excise taxes,if any). Plus,unlike Frontier or Tacoma the Silverado doesn't have a manual transmission option for those who like to row thru the gears themselves.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:38 AM   #154
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It is amazing how few people understand the difference between force and work, torque and power. Those who don't tend to think highly of diesels.
Amazing indeed.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by mjd4277 View Post
Maybe in purchase price but you have to also look at OPERATING COSTS for the trucks as well(fuel,maintenance,insurance,excise taxes,if any). Plus,unlike Frontier or Tacoma the Silverado doesn't have a manual transmission option for those who like to row thru the gears themselves.
Edmunds has the 5 year cost to own of the Frontier and Silverado about the same. I agree the biggest benefits to the Frontier are the smaller size and available manual transmission. How many people buy a Frontier with a manual transmission? Within 200 miles of me there are 210 new Frontiers for sale. Four are equipped with manual transmissions. The cheapest one is $22000.

There are almost 9000 Silverados for sale in the same 200 miles! The cheapest one is under $15000. Americans, in general, don't buy small trucks. Large trucks being the same price, or cheaper than small trucks while getting the same fuel economy is what killed small trucks in America. The final nail in the coffin was when small and midsized SUVs stopped sharing platforms with small/midsized trucks. Once the Explorer moved to the D-platform, the Ranger was dead.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:23 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPsDad View Post
Here's a photo taken earlier today by a FB friend in California:



Diesel 93 cents a gallon more than regular.

Not rocket science to figure out that math.
My other car here in the US requires PREMIUM. $3.61 to $3.88

The EB motors from Ford do not REQUIRE premium but do RECOMMEND it.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:01 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bball40dtw View Post
Edmunds has the 5 year cost to own of the Frontier and Silverado about the same. I agree the biggest benefits to the Frontier are the smaller size and available manual transmission. How many people buy a Frontier with a manual transmission? Within 200 miles of me there are 210 new Frontiers for sale. Four are equipped with manual transmissions. The cheapest one is $22000.

There are almost 9000 Silverados for sale in the same 200 miles! The cheapest one is under $15000. Americans, in general, don't buy small trucks. Large trucks being the same price, or cheaper than small trucks while getting the same fuel economy is what killed small trucks in America. The final nail in the coffin was when small and midsized SUVs stopped sharing platforms with small/midsized trucks. Once the Explorer moved to the D-platform, the Ranger was dead.
The Ranger was dead because Ford didn't invest in to keeping it up to date so it would stay competitive like they should've(in the U.S. market,manufacturers can't go TEN YEARS between major redesigns anymore). As for the Silverado being more numerous than the Frontier,some trucks are more popular than others in some regions. And yes there a few M/T Frontier trucks out there,if you know where to look. Edmund's info is like Consumer Reports,you have to take it with a grain of salt. If Americans didn't buy small trucks,there wouldn't have been a Ranger,S-10/Sonoma,Hardbody/Frontier,Tacoma or Dakota. Incidentally,Mahindra was originally planning to sell a small truck here in the U.S. (with a diesel,no less)but the plan was scrapped due to legal issues.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:09 AM   #158
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Just a quick read for the education of it.

Most commercials you see for big trucks advertise the impressive amount of horsepower and torque the engine provides. It seems, as usual, the bigger the numbers, the better. But what do those numbers mean, and how are the two concepts related?

The power an engine produces is called horsepower. In mathematical terms, one horsepower is the power needed to move 550 pounds one foot in one second, or the power needed to move 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute. Power, in physics, is defined simply as the rate of doing work.

Engine horsepower is measured using a dynamometer. The dynamometer places a load on the engine and measures the twisting force the engine crankshaft places against the load. The load is usually a brake preventing the wheels from spinning.

What the dynamometer is really doing, however, is measuring the torque output of the engine. In a vehicle, torque is measured at various engine speeds, or revolutions per minute (RPM). These two numbers are fed into a formula -- torque times RPM divided by 5,252 -- to arrive at horsepower. The Society of Automotive Engineers has two standards for determining horsepower: net and gross. Gross horsepower removes most loads from the engine, including emission controls, before testing. Net horsepower is what's found by testing the same kind of stock vehicle you'd find at the showroom, and that's the measurement now used in advertising and manufacturer literature.

Horsepower is determined from torque because torque is easier to measure. Torque is defined specifically as a rotating force that may or may not result in motion. It's measured as the amount of force multiplied by the length of the lever through which it acts. For example, if you use a one-foot-long wrench to apply 10 pounds of force to a bolt head, you're generating 10-pound-feet of torque.

Torque, as mentioned above, can be generated without moving an object. However, when it does move an object, it then becomes "work," and this is what most people think of when they think of torque (usually in terms of towing). The more torque produced by an engine, the more work potential it has.


Also in a way like thrust for aircraft engines.

Also understand that drive ratio's are different that gas engines to utilize the large amounts of torque the diesels produce compared to gas engines.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjd4277 View Post
The Ranger was dead because Ford didn't invest in to keeping it up to date so it would stay competitive like they should've(in the U.S. market,manufacturers can't go TEN YEARS between major redesigns anymore). As for the Silverado being more numerous than the Frontier,some trucks are more popular than others in some regions. And yes there a few M/T Frontier trucks out there,if you know where to look. Edmund's info is like Consumer Reports,you have to take it with a grain of salt. If Americans didn't buy small trucks,there wouldn't have been a Ranger,S-10/Sonoma,Hardbody/Frontier,Tacoma or Dakota. Incidentally,Mahindra was originally planning to sell a small truck here in the U.S. (with a diesel,no less)but the plan was scrapped due to legal issues.
The Mahindra plan was scrapped because it was vaporware.

Americans used to buy small trucks, but they haven't for awhile. The more popular SUVs and CUVs got, they less popular small trucks were. The best selling vehicles in America are trucks. Between the F series and Chevy/GMC twins you are looking at least 10% of the total vehicle market. Yet at the same time, small/medium trucks can't justify the business case for them. Ford sells more Fusions than everyone sells small trucks. If Ford does have a smaller truck come out, it will be a downsized F-series that shares a cab and other components with other F-series products.

Ford didn't invest in the Ranger in the US because they weren't going to make money on it. They've been trying to kill it every year since the mid-2000s. They didn't kill it until they would have had to redo it without being able to share costs with another platform. Ford has said they we didn't get the global Ranger is because customers here wouldn't buy enough of them for Ford to make money.

Small trucks have long life cycles as well. Both Toyota and Nissan have gone over 8 years without updating thier US small truck platform.

With the proliferation of CUVs and the introduction of smaller vans like the Transit Connect, there is little reason for people to buy a small truck. An Escape can tow a boat, and most business owners would rather have a TC than a Ranger.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:19 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bball40dtw View Post
The Mahindra plan was scrapped because it was vaporware.

Americans used to buy small trucks, but they haven't for awhile. The more popular SUVs and CUVs got, they less popular small trucks were. The best selling vehicles in America are trucks. Between the F series and Chevy/GMC twins you are looking at least 10% of the total vehicle market. Yet at the same time, small/medium trucks can't justify the business case for them. Ford sells more Fusions than everyone sells small trucks. If Ford does have a smaller truck come out, it will be a downsized F-series that shares a cab and other components with other F-series products.

Ford didn't invest in the Ranger in the US because they weren't going to make money on it. They've been trying to kill it every year since the mid-2000s. They didn't kill it until they would have had to redo it without being able to share costs with another platform. Ford has said they we didn't get the global Ranger is because customers here wouldn't buy enough of them for Ford to make money.

Small trucks have long life cycles as well. Both Toyota and Nissan have gone over 8 years without updating thier US small truck platform.

With the proliferation of CUVs and the introduction of smaller vans like the Transit Connect, there is little reason for people to buy a small truck. An Escape can tow a boat, and most business owners would rather have a TC than a Ranger.
And some business owners still have a need for a small truck as in some parts of the country a CUV or SUV just isn't going to cut it. TCs are popular,but not that popular(a lot of businesses around here are still driving the Econoline/E Series vans,Rangers,F Series and Super Duty trucks). Nissan's truck line uses a "one size fits all" platform (the F Alpha)which allows them to change components for the necessary vehicles(although both the current Frontier and Titan are long in the tooth-a new Titan is due around 2013-2014,the Frontier's fate is uncertain as only 28,450 of them were sold in 2012). The "Taco" is overdue for a redesign as well(Toyota only gave it a facelift for 2013).Most of the money that would've gone to redesign/replace the Ranger went to redeveloping the Explorer into a CUV and the EcoBoost V6 for the F-150.

The Mahindra deal wasn't vaporware btw,there was a legal dispute between them and Global Vehicles USA,an independent distributor whom Mahindra had originally picked to sell its trucks by shipping them in knockdown kits(Mahindra then decided to sell the vehicles on their own). Also,the class action suit brought by Mahindra's American dealers effectively scuttled the plans.
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