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Old 02-23-2013, 07:49 PM   #81
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Ignoring it how? I haven't had the problem...so why should I complain about it?

People here would probably be better served to pay more attention to how their car is working, and a bit less about how everyone else's is working, especially when you're using an internet forum (read: small sample) to base most of your worries.

Some of you make it appear as though I should worry about my vehicle because some other person had issues with theirs. I don't understand that method of thinking...
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #82
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Ignoring it how? I haven't had the problem...so why should I complain about it?

People here would probably be better served to pay more attention to how their car is working, and a bit less about how everyone else's is working, especially when you're using an internet forum (read: small sample) to base most of your worries.

Some of you make it appear as though I should worry about my vehicle because some other person had issues with theirs. I don't understand that method of thinking...
You are ignoring well documented and real issues with the DCT if you suggest "It would seem that a test drive would've brought up these issues immediately."

A 15 minute test drive would not demonstrate how the car drives because the tranmission learns your driving style, nor would it show you leaking seals and bad clutches (which have been happening in some cases, under 10k miles). So research is key before pulling the trigger and buying the car.

It makes me laugh when people say internet forums are just a small portion of owners and those with complaints.

As many of you know I have on going steering issues with my car all stemming from a bad steering rack. It was back ordered for 6 weeks and had to be shipped from Canada for me. This is not a "small portion" of owners. The dealer that had to replace mine said I was the 3rd person waiting for a rack when I brought it in. He said they changed DOZENS so far.

So I am happy for you if you have 0 problems. Just because you, and maybe 10,20,30,100 other owners have perfect cars does not mean there isn't an equal number of people with trouble cars also.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:19 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Some Guy From NY View Post
You are ignoring well documented and real issues with the DCT if you suggest "It would seem that a test drive would've brought up these issues immediately."

A 15 minute test drive would not demonstrate how the car drives because the tranmission learns your driving style, nor would it show you leaking seals and bad clutches (which have been happening in some cases, under 10k miles). So research is key before pulling the trigger and buying the car.

It makes me laugh when people say internet forums are just a small portion of owners and those with complaints.

As many of you know I have on going steering issues with my car all stemming from a bad steering rack. It was back ordered for 6 weeks and had to be shipped from Canada for me. This is not a "small portion" of owners. The dealer that had to replace mine said I was the 3rd person waiting for a rack when I brought it in. He said they changed DOZENS so far.

So I am happy for you if you have 0 problems. Just because you, and maybe 10,20,30,100 other owners have perfect cars does not mean there are not an equal number of people will trouble cars.
The transmission does not learn your driving style, it only learns the state of its own components and how to shift itself. So that point is invalid.

Having a 6 week back order doesn't necessarily mean that there was a lot of vehicles with this particular issue when talking about a brand new car where the majority of parts are going straight to the assembly line and not to spare parts. Especially after how lean the suppliers are running these days after the crash in auto sales nearly completely destroying their customer base and taking them out with it.

Dozens out of more than 220,000 sold just in 2012 alone (Not counting the 2012s built from 2011) is not a particularly statistically significant number.

Even if it was a few thousand units (2000 for example) that would only be 0.9% of 220,000 units. Its a minor risk.

It is unfortunate that you've gotten a bad one, and that the dealer network hasn't made things better. I've not been treated well by the dealers for warranty issues either, but it was mostly minor things.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:29 PM   #84
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So I am happy for you if you have 0 problems. Just because you, and maybe 10,20,30,100 other owners have perfect cars does not mean there isn't an equal number of people with trouble cars also.
That's my point...all this discussion is about "all the others", when there is no reasonably accurate number for that. All people are doing is reading through the posts that have been made here, and using that information to come to conclusions about the vehicle in general. There's no way to get an accurate reading of how many people have issues based on a forum or a single dealer...so why are people still accepting it as scientific data?

I'm not happy with my Focus because I read a bunch of other peoples' opinions on their car. My car makes me happy, not what I read on the internet.

Likewise, I am not disappointed with my Focus because many others on this forum seem to be. The topic of this thread is gathering input on the DCT. Making assumptions regarding the entire product based of shady data doesn't help anyone. Did you have a problem with yours? Great, then post about it and carry on. The fear mongering doesn't help anyone.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:32 PM   #85
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The transmission does not learn your driving style, it only learns the state of its own components and how to shift itself. So that point is invalid.

Having a 6 week back order doesn't necessarily mean that there was a lot of vehicles with this particular issue when talking about a brand new car where the majority of parts are going straight to the assembly line and not to spare parts. Especially after how lean the suppliers are running these days after the crash in auto sales nearly completely destroying their customer base and taking them out with it.

Dozens out of more than 220,000 sold just in 2012 alone (Not counting the 2012s built from 2011) is not a particularly statistically significant number.

Even if it was a few thousand units (2000 for example) that would only be 0.9% of 220,000 units. Its a minor risk.

It is unfortunate that you've gotten a bad one, and that the dealer network hasn't made things better. I've not been treated well by the dealers for warranty issues either, but it was mostly minor things.
To say the first point of the transmission "not learning" is invalid...is really splitting hairs.

It gets smoother over time as it "learns to shift itself", so while you are correct, when you FIRST test drive the car, it DOES NOT FEEL like it will 5,000 miles down the road. So a simple test drive does not accurately portray how the transmission will be.

While yes, my dealer only had a few dozen, and obviously that is very small compared to the total number of focus built, my dealer is one of THOUSANDS. Who knows how many focus have been brought in for repair. Reading the steering rack thread, many people have the same experience with their dealers as I had, with them being informed that they have replaced quite a few of them. Just speculation, but I bet the real number is in tens of thousands with bad racks.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:35 PM   #86
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That's my point...all this discussion is about "all the others", when there is no reasonably accurate number for that. All people are doing is reading through the posts that have been made here, and using that information to come to conclusions about the vehicle in general. There's no way to get an accurate reading of how many people have issues based on a forum or a single dealer...so why are people still accepting it as scientific data?

I'm not happy with my Focus because I read a bunch of other peoples' opinions on their car. My car makes me happy, not what I read on the internet.

Likewise, I am not disappointed with my Focus because many others on this forum seem to be. The topic of this thread is gathering input on the DCT. Making assumptions regarding the entire product based of shady data doesn't help anyone. Did you have a problem with yours? Great, then post about it and carry on. The fear mongering doesn't help anyone.
My whole point is that you said "to test drive one, the problems should be obvious", when that is wrong.

I have nothing else to say .
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Some Guy From NY View Post
To say the first point of the transmission "not learning" is invalid...is really splitting hairs.

It gets smoother over time as it "learns to shift itself", so while you are correct, when you FIRST test drive the car, it DOES NOT FEEL like it will 5,000 miles down the road. So a simple test drive does not accurately portray how the transmission will be.

While yes, my dealer only had a few dozen, and obviously that is very small compared to the total number of focus built, my dealer is one of THOUSANDS. Who knows how many focus have been brought in for repair. Reading the steering rack thread, many people have the same experience with their dealers as I had, with them being informed that they have replaced quite a few of them. Just speculation, but I bet the real number is in tens of thousands with bad racks.
My car basically felt the same right off the delivery truck as it does now with 11,000+ miles on the odometer.

So in my case the test drive did reveal exactly how it would behave so far. I don't think its ever gone through an excessively juddery period unlike what I've seen and heard people report.

Since my car has been well behaved mechanically I would recommend the Powershift to others.

I also haven't had any major issue with the steering rack either, even after taking several 250+ mile drives at once. The most recent being over 370 miles each way. The car did not wander excessively or require constant large corrections to maintain position in its lane.

Again without knowing the exact numbers its impossible to say how widespread a particular issue actually is, especially just from listening to complaints raised on the forum.

Many of which while legitimate tend to also overstate the scale of the issue.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:53 PM   #88
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Even if it was a few thousand units (2000 for example) that would only be 0.9% of 220,000 units. Its a minor risk.
I think that is exactly what a few of us here were trying to convey to the OP. Just buy which ever car you like best. Yes, statistically there is a greater chance of issues with the DCT, but it doesn't warrant eliminating it from consideration, because thousands of us out here are loving it. I am beginning to believe what we are seeing here is DCT envy.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:40 PM   #89
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I think that is exactly what a few of us here were trying to convey to the OP. Just buy which ever car you like best. Yes, statistically there is a greater chance of issues with the DCT, but it doesn't warrant eliminating it from consideration, because thousands of us out here are loving it. I am beginning to believe what we are seeing here is DCT envy.
Yes, I envy the fact that you have a transmission universally reviled by the automotive press, a transmission so amazing it took a car considered one of the best compacts in Europe to the bottom of consumer reports and other ratings almost singlehandedly. Oh and lets not forget all the miserable Fiesta guys with the Same. Exact. Issues.

Envy indeed. Guilty as charged. Lol. Gosh I wish I could have afforded the dct in my cheap economy car. Maybe if I save up more next time.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:17 AM   #90
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You are ignoring well documented and real issues with the DCT if you suggest "It would seem that a test drive would've brought up these issues immediately."

A 15 minute test drive would not demonstrate how the car drives because the tranmission learns your driving style, nor would it show you leaking seals and bad clutches (which have been happening in some cases, under 10k miles). So research is key before pulling the trigger and buying the car.

It makes me laugh when people say internet forums are just a small portion of owners and those with complaints.
As you probably know, the Focus has been in production for almost 2 years now. Of course the issues with the DCT are well known and well documented.

How good are the cars that are currently rolling off of the assembly line?
I would hope that they are *substantially* better than the earlier production cars in many respects, including the reliability of the DCT.

If that's not the case, it would indicate that the Ford management and/or engineering people are highly inept.

You can draw your own conclusions.
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