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Old 02-22-2013, 06:50 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
LOL,you missed my point entirely, it doesn't matter what you find in one of car and drivers thousands and thousands of car reviews, they don't make the focus better than it is.
Well you missed my point entirely too. But nevermind, I'm tired.

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Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
If you don't think the focus has an issue, go look at NHTSA complaints for 2012, honda fit has about 7 complaints, hyundai elantra has 35 or so, focus 161, the vast majority on the tranny.
Already did it, 5 months ago. But I did it more accurately.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...6&postcount=83

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Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
The question now isn't if the tranny is a POS, that's settled, it has a very high failure rate and drivability issues that seem to stem from leaks or early clutch failures.
Oh it's settled is it? I would love to get a few minutes with your magical crystal ball. Although I'd use it for something more worthwhile, like knowing the next World Series winners.



I never said the DCT didn't have problems. My car has had its clutch pack replaced due to clutch slipping (not fluid leak). And I've had several bouts of shuddering that I think i solved myself. But now that, after 12k miles, it's running relatively smoothly I can opine that the DCT problems are relatively minor enough that they shouldn't overshadow the real strengths of the car. And I think the fact that the accolades are still coming in after 2 years and after competitors have been redesigned or refreshed supports that.

Just my opinion.

Last edited by kam327; 02-22-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:23 AM   #52
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My 2012 has over 34k miles only trip to dealer has been for my free oil change. And a TSB for the radio.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:41 AM   #53
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[QUOTE=Jim_J;4602229]Sure, but none of that means the focus DCT doesn't have a problem. The number of complaints on any of the forums is huge compared to similar cars. Clearly there is an issue, we just don't know how big it is yet.

Where the heck are you getting the statistics that back this up? The only metric I've seen is the number complaints filed with the NHTSA and last I've checked, there were 161 filed complaints. Yeah, its higher than Honda (7) or Hyundai (35), but considering that Ford has sold approximately 350,000 Focus in the US alone, that number is still small. Furthermore, the NHTSA has not issued any findings yet based on these complaints so for you to conclusively say that there "clearly is an issue" is absolutely bogus.

There are plenty of folks here who have had issues INDIVIDUALLY with their cars, a lot of these issues seems to have been related with the service they've received from their respective car dealerships and with Ford. Conversely, there a lots of folks here who have had NO problems with their cars or minor ones at best. A couple of weeks ago, there was a flare up on this board with Focus (and former Focus) owners who felt like the problems they were experiencing (or have experienced) were being trivialized or minimized by some here. That is not my intent with this posting. But quite frankly, your statement that "clearly there is an issue, we just don't know how big it is yet" makes me think that you are comparing Ford's DCT to the Ford Pinto debacle and if you are, then you don't have credibility.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #54
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Hi everyone,

If you're currently experiencing an issue with your vehicle, a good first step is making an appointment at your dealership so that a tech can take a look. Also, I'm happy to do what I can to help by looking into your case. Send me a PM with your VIN, dealer, mileage, daytime phone number, and full name; I'll get to work!

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:49 AM   #55
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Ford Focus US sales, 2012: 245,922/161 complaints = .07% complaint rate
Honda Fit US sales, 2012: 49,346/7 complaints = .01% complaint rate
Hyundai Elantra 2012 sales:202,034/36 complaints = .02% complaint rate

Ford Focus has 7 times the complaint rate of the Fit and more than 3 times the complaint rate of the Hyundai elantra. That's HUGE.

I understand being a fan boi, being in denial, or trying to minimize the issue publicly for the sake of PR or some other emotional or monetary gain, but the issue is there and it's real. Sure it only effects a small percentage (so far at least), but the difference between the most reliable car and the least reliable is only a few percentage points. Go to the forums for other cars in the Focus class, you don't see the same thing, the transmission coming up again and again and again.

Look at this, based on customer surveys:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...cars/index.htm

Fords reliability is slipping badly (dropped 7 places to 27th place in the latest CR rankings, was in 10th place a couple years ago), and the DCT is one of the reasons why, and while the car is still to new to know the real impact fords current "fix" of "educating" customers that the transmission is supposed to be crappy to drive isn't a winning strategy imho.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:13 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
Ford Focus US sales, 2012: 245,922/161 complaints = .07% complaint rate
Honda Fit US sales, 2012: 49,346/7 complaints = .01% complaint rate
Hyundai Elantra 2012 sales:202,034/36 complaints = .02% complaint rate

Ford Focus has 7 times the complaint rate of the Fit and more than 3 times the complaint rate of the Hyundai elantra. That's HUGE.
Got drama much? I don't generally disagree the NHTSA complaints tell a compelling story. And I do believe the DCT was not fully baked when released (and still probably not quite to 160 degrees). But I also don't believe the sky is falling.

And be careful with your stats. I would look deeper into them before publicizing such global prognostications. 2012 was a major redesign year for the Focus; it was not for the Fit. The 2012 model year also lasted roughly 18 months for the Focus, not so for the Fit.

I can easily turn the tables on you and look at the Fit's first model year, 2007. For that model year there are 187 NHTSA complaints for the Fit, 227 for the Focus. But there were more than twice as many Focuses sold. So the complaint rates were:

Fit: 187/84,300 = 2.2 complaints per 1,000
Focus: 227/173,200 = 1.3 complaints per 1,000

See what I mean?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #57
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Well Put!
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
Ford Focus US sales, 2012: 245,922/161 complaints = .07% complaint rate
Honda Fit US sales, 2012: 49,346/7 complaints = .01% complaint rate
Hyundai Elantra 2012 sales:202,034/36 complaints = .02% complaint rate

Ford Focus has 7 times the complaint rate of the Fit and more than 3 times the complaint rate of the Hyundai elantra. That's HUGE.

I understand being a fan boi, being in denial, or trying to minimize the issue publicly for the sake of PR or some other emotional or monetary gain, but the issue is there and it's real. Sure it only effects a small percentage (so far at least), but the difference between the most reliable car and the least reliable is only a few percentage points. Go to the forums for other cars in the Focus class, you don't see the same thing, the transmission coming up again and again and again.

Look at this, based on customer surveys:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...cars/index.htm

Fords reliability is slipping badly (dropped 7 places to 27th place in the latest CR rankings, was in 10th place a couple years ago), and the DCT is one of the reasons why, and while the car is still to new to know the real impact fords current "fix" of "educating" customers that the transmission is supposed to be crappy to drive isn't a winning strategy imho.
Sounds like the real problem is with you: It is clear you have buyers remorse and to justify that, you are trying to make it seem like all Focus buyers have or should have the same problems you do. Nice try but it won't work.

Furthermore, the complaint rate is not .07% (seven percent), it is less than one percent. The problem with throwing stats around like you're doing is that you undermine the very legitimate problems some folks have had around here. That being said, you also diminish your credibility by saying that 161 complaints somehow is tantamount to a fatal defect in all Focus.

I also find it amusing that folks on this board like to "cherry pick" which article they like: All the Focus haters are quick to point to consumer reports since they are not fans of the Focus' DCT or MFT while Car and Driver and Kiplinger have gone in the exact opposite direction labeling the car a best buy. Neither source is gospel as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
I can easily turn the tables on you and look at the Fit's first model year, 2007. For that model year there are 187 NHTSA complaints for the Fit, 227 for the Focus. But there were more than twice as many Focuses sold. So the complaint rates were:

Fit: 187/84,300 = 2.2 complaints per 1,000
Focus: 227/173,200 = 1.3 complaints per 1,000

See what I mean?
Sure, but your saying that the fit, at its worst was under twice the complaint rate of Focus, while focus was 7 times the complaint ratio of fit is the same. It's not the same, the ratios are still way out of kilter with each other in fits favor.

Also it's not just one data point from the nhtsa, it's everywhere. Consumer reports and JD Power both have ford quality dropping, and they cite the powershift as a major contributor to that. On this forum you see the DCT brought up constantly, and my own experience with the tranny has me worried, my wife thought we had been rear ended it shifted so hard in slow moving traffic.

You don't need a crystal ball to see there is a real concern that this thing could turn into an expensive albatross around the purchasers neck, and what does ford do? Send the dealers a memo telling them to tell the customer that transmission drivability issues are normal operation, which is happening even in cases where the clutches are ruined.

There has been possibly a clutch rivet change, but little detail and no way to know if you have new or old design. The new software that ford put out claiming it fixed the issues helps drivability for most, but issues seem to return shortly for some. Clutch seals leak, and no idea if there were any changes for that. Clutches shred, no real data on that either. It seems to take people multiple trips to get the clutches looked at, or sometimes service refused, and new clutch packs and seals are the same as the old as near as i can tell.

Are we going to get the same treatment that edge AWD drivers got?

There is no real data, and ford isn't making me confident. How long should clutches last in normal use, by design?
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_J View Post
You don't need a crystal ball to see there is a real concern that this thing could turn into an expensive albatross around the purchasers neck, and what does ford do? Send the dealers a memo telling them to tell the customer that transmission drivability issues are normal operation, which is happening even in cases where the clutches are ruined.
This is true. Even if we're blowing the issues out of proportion (which we're not. lol) Dealers are turning away complaints without even looking for an oil leak. Is that also "normal"?

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There has been possibly a clutch rivet change, but little detail and no way to know if you have new or old design.
I feel like I used to know that date - from what I see, it's not displayed on fordparts.

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There is no real data, and ford isn't making me confident. How long should clutches last in normal use, by design?
Regular manual clutches? average is probably 90k miles, but I've hear people saying they've hit nearly 300k miles. I don't see why a computer-controlled clutch can't have 1/10 the life of a manual clutch...
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