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Old 01-16-2013, 07:41 PM   #1
200two-zx3
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zx3 dohc solid lifter adjusment updated discussion

Ok I've spent hrs searching for a thread about this subject there are a few but all of thm re rom 2009 or older and non have answers so I thought I might be able to inquire on some help from the forum...

I'm running into this issue with my 02 zx3, I have pittine in my exhaust valve face area, so I took it to my local performance shop to have the valves ground and then realized if I did this id need new buckets or lifters whatever you like to call it, has any one found any new info on this, I've found these pt numbers but still haven't found anyone who sells them???
Thanks

YS4Z-6500-DADSELECT-FIT 17.145MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-EASELECT-FIT 17.175MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-EABSELECT-FIT 17.205MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-EACSELECT-FIT 17.235MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-EADSELECT-FIT 17.265MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-FASELECT-FIT 17.295MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-FABSELECT-FIT 17.325MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-FACSELECT-FIT 17.355MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-FADSELECT-FIT 17.385MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-GASELECT-FIT 17.415MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-GABSELECT-FIT 17.445MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-GACSELECT-FIT 17.475MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-GADSELECT-FIT 17.505MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-HASELECT-FIT 17.535MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-HABSELECT-FIT 17.565MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-HACSELECT-FIT 17.595MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-HADSELECT-FIT 17.625MM THICK
YS4Z-6500-JASELECT-FIT 17.655MM THICK


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Old 01-16-2013, 09:36 PM   #2
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Well first you should measure to find out you need so you don't buy too many. The dealer has these parts. If not them, then one of our vendors like CFM should have these. You might have most of what you need, and only need a few.

Buckets not lifters.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #3
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If they are not out a huge amount you can simply reface the tips of the valves to do the same thing, in fact, if they were all close before, standard procedure is to reface tips a commensurate amount to make up for the valve grinding. Say .010" taken off 45 degree angle valve, then .005" would be taken off tip to keep shim or bucket the same. Of course seat grinding affects things too.

You can find a short valve and/or thinner bucket to get clearance at all and simply pre-assemble using a single light spring from hardware store to check and measure with feeler guage every position to find clearance, then figure what you need to get back to spec. Spring should be light enough you can easily push valve open with a finger but repeat pulling back shut to check clearance. You won't even need any tools to assemble, only your fingers.

Meaning you may not need many new parts at all. Simply measuring for clearance will show that you can reuse some buckets in different positions from what they were. Many do that but I prefer to keep a running bucket on that cam lobe. If only polished then swapping OK but if a pattern has developed you should keep that bucket with that lobe. If swapping, at the least I would go over the rubbing surface with 400 sandpaper to give a better chance of proper break-in. Course, that's just me, these actually have very little spring pressure so swapping not as critical as on motors with lots of spring tension.

Hoping you're just doing exhausts, the intakes generally only need to be hand lapped back in, they rarely wear, and again use all same parts except seals. The exhausts go through hell though and need to be cut.

The reason you don't find much info is because most cars never get this done, even Ford looked at me like I was crazy once when I bought a couple, said they NEVER do that work. In all fairness to them the parts are extremely durable and most motors go to the scrapyard before enough wear there to cause troubles.........a far cry from the '60s when you had to adjust that stuff once a month.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #4
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With "rebuilt" parts being the more typical repair work done these days, few get into the machine work themselves any more.

My experience with major engine work comes from motorcycles, where repair was always done since "rebuilt" parts (like heads) didn't exist.

On those, we only cut seats & lapped valves in B4 final assembly - any bad valves had to be replaced not reground since they originally were hard faced (stellite) from the factory, and re-ground valves would have a softer face & wear quickly.

Amazing how valve adjustment intervals have gone from regular to never isn't it? Even without automatic adjusters it's gotten to the point they seem to figure the engine will wear out B4 it's needed....

If regrinding is appropriate for the Focus valves, amc's suggestions on tip grinding if needed, combined with swapping buckets may be enough to do the job without buying a bunch of new buckets. More labor, less parts $. Depends who's doing all the labor as to what's the cheapest route!
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:04 AM   #5
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Oh, brother, don't get me started on cheap crap thin stellite coated valves.........

Beginning to have a true problem with available shops around here too to do any kind of quality work. Already running into people who talk the talk----then give you junk back after machine work. I may have to start sending my stuff to China to get it done correctly. With rebuilt stuff centralizing more and more to fewer and fewer places, I gotta wonder where they get people trained well enough to do it right. Then I think of my prison sentence at the auto store and how even simple starters and alternators could get so screwed up and it becomes clear. We're in a world of hurt here.....
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:06 AM   #6
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Hadn't run into the "cheap crap" myself, official Honda parts worked quite well at the time...

Did have a valve grinder in the shop, but it wasn't used much anymore - original Triumphs & older BMW's were the ones that called for it's use.

Boring & honing cylinders was the majority of machine work and even in the 80's some were amazed that was actually done in the shop since automotive work was always "sent out" even then.

The mention of grinding valve tips really "rang a bell", since that was the ONLY way to adjust clearance on small flathead power equipment engines...

"high tech" for valve adjustment was shim under bucket, since those tiny shims & their buckets were a LOT lighter than the large shims on top that could be changed without removing the cams... Buckets without shims have to be even lighter, so with better materials & tighter tolerances making valve adjustment less of a regular maintenance issue I can see why they are used. (bet they are a lot cheaper for the factory as well!)

To get back to the O.P. - once the seats are cut & the valves ground or replaced (as needed) & lapped in, you can assemble the head & do your measuring of actual clearances. Then you take the cams & buckets off again, see which can be swapped to get proper clearance - and order what you need or try some additional machine work like amc's suggestion of lapping tips to gain clearance where needed.

Luck!

P.S. - forgot to mention, "three angle" cut on the seats should be more than adequate, I've seen some 5 angle cuts advertised but IMHO it's more a sales pitch for a particular tool than a real performance advantage.... That could be a long discussion in itself!

Last edited by sailor; 01-18-2013 at 08:09 AM. Reason: add
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:20 AM   #7
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Yep three angles fine, just a stocker. By cheap valves I meant Honda, you often couldn't reuse them, and the prices for exhausts were astronomical.

I actually didn't lap tips, they had to be ground in varying amounts up to .005"-.006"+. You won't be able to lap that much off tip. I fitted a plate to side of 6 inch bench grinder, it was drilled with varying threads to mount various press-in valve guides outside threaded to fit in the plate. Plate made adjustable to be able to put guide in parallel and square and I used a fine grinding wheel shimmed to be dead straight when spinning. In short, I cut my tips on a bench grinder by inserting valve in guide and lightly spinning it against the turning wheel. Worked like a top, that was 70K ago and motor still runs primo.

Whatever, you should hold toward the LOOSE side of exhaust clearance spec, the gradual recession of valve into seat will close up the clearance instead of it getting looser. The added looseness of the cam caps muddies up just how much clearance you have in there because the cams kinda wobble around in the cam caps.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #8
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Here is why you don't want to use cheap valves.
The 2.19" head went through four cylinder walls and chambers on both cast iron heads. The poor 396 in my Chevelle died idling in the garage, after 15 years of service and several rebuilds. I had the heads done when I was a teenager and not much cash, they lasted quite a few miles and a couple sets of valve springs.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #9
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Hey, grind a point on it and use it as a marking centerline punch for piston/valve cutout locations LOL.

Used to have same trouble with a friends' '70 Boss 302 (true boss) that ran in the tens 1/4 mi. The sodium filled valves had a tendency to snap in two. One came loose and piston struck it to sever rod, piston stuck high and the rod bent sideways to lock into its' paired mate turning a V-8 into a V-7..........the damn thing still ran 10.90s like that. The friend came back after two weeks saying he thought it was missing, started it up for me and I could tell one cylinder was not working, why he never yanked plugs I could not say..........needless to say he felt pretty stupid when motor was disassembled.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:43 AM   #10
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he thought it was missing, started it up for me and I could tell one cylinder was not working, why he never yanked plugs
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