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Old 03-05-2014, 10:47 AM   #1
valmundo
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Kia Introduces new DCT

http://wot.motortrend.com/1403_kia_s...at_geneva.html

I don't think the DCT is going away.


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Old 03-05-2014, 02:37 PM   #2
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I read the Sonata which debuts at the New York show will have one as well.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:03 PM   #3
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It's taken a while for the DCT to make it's way down from Formula 1 to small cars, it took Porsche a number of years for the PDK to develop from "a notchy attempt at an automatic transmission" to "the only way to shift a Porsche if you want to go fast". (quotes by memory from magazine reviews) Some, like Lamborghini, tried a single clutch automated transmission for a number of years with worse results. Offhand, AFAIK the single clutch variety is only used on large Trucks now.

Quite a battle going on between various new transmission designs, DCT vs. CVT vs. Multi spd. automatic.

We saw CVT first, relegated to low power applications & not well received initially. It's still around, and is handling more power - automatic option for the '15 WRX for example.

Multi. spd. automatics are becoming common for higher power/smooth low speed operation applications (Trucks & luxury cars). Cost/complexity/weight may keep them in that category.

DCT keeps spreading to more platforms (as noted by the OP). Useable across a wide range of applications, relatively efficient & inexpensive, lower projected service/maintenance costs than CVT or torque converter multi. speed units, it may win the battle for wide spread use.

Ford jumping in as an early adopter on the Fiesta/Focus is likely to pay off for them over time. Staying with an old 4 spd. electronic torque converter trans. (state of the art when introduced) was no longer an option competitively.

Perfected before introduction? Hardly IMHO.

The pace of change these days no longer seems to offer that option.

(Introduction of Fuel Injection to the mass market followed a different course, urgency of adoption varied over the course of it's introduction)

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Old 03-05-2014, 06:44 PM   #4
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I think your assessment of conventional automatics is too gloomy. In fact, Chrysler's 9-speed is already in the new 200 and Cherokee and is expected to go in the Dart and probably most of the rest of their cars by the end of the decade. And the Ford /GM 9-speed is being designed for a wide variety of FWD cars. I wouldn't be so surprised to see the 9-speed in the next gen Cruze and Focus. Especially if the DCT is still not near perfect in the refreshed Focus.

The Japanese brands are all rallying around the CVT. Despite still having drivability issues in the latest Altima and Pathfinder after, what, 10 years of development? Haven't heard of any problems with the Corolla CVT yet. But it's still a bit early.

Side note: it was interesting to learn recently that 9th gear in the Chrysler unit is rarely engaged in the real world and doesn't even figure into the EPA ratings. ????
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:01 PM   #5
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You could be right on the future of conventional automatics, my Crystal Ball has been quite Cloudy.

Seeing a Motor Trend mention of Acura's first DCT in a top of the line "RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD" after I wrote that just muddied the waters more. (not current on my reading)

For a side note from the subject of whether we'll see more DCT's, do you think the CVT's would have been more useful as "REAL" CVT's rather than constricted to shifting "steps" to mimic a traditional automatic?

Odd to note that on one hand (CVT) we have a transmission trying to act like it has discreet gears, and on the other (DCT) we have one where the "problem" is only having discreet gears, so operation is being modified to make that less noticeable.

Then you have the conventional automatics adding gears to act more like a CVT!

Many years of experience with conventional automatics still gives those manufacturers an edge, they're not going to lay down & die off like the proverbial Buggy Whip maker.

It's going to be interesting, might not be a single "Winner" - at least not in the near future.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:12 PM   #6
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Sailor your are so right its funny lol. All the transmissions all trying to act like each other lol
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:45 PM   #7
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The funny thing is that the Honda VFR1200 has had a DCT for years with no issues whatsoever.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:02 AM   #8
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From Cycle World

"Sounds coming from the transmission at lower speeds make you think you left the output shaft in a puddle of oil at the last stop sign"

"Smooth and seamless in every shifting mode, except at low speeds & RPM"

"You can't use the engine's full power when accelerating from a stop with the DCT, careful control of clutch slip combined with reduced power in the first two gears below 5,000 rpm limits acceleration"

I actually am constantly impressed by Honda's experimentation & showcasing of technology with many of their Cycles. They were the first to offer an automatic on medium & full size Bikes and I've heard of a few recent versions, though I don't keep up with the cycles much anymore.

Being a Cycle, I'm guessing a wet clutch arrangement which helps with the "shudder" issue. Not perfect, but quite a step once again.
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