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Old 01-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #11
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Question Is there really such a place?

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There are places in the USA where diesel is as cheap as regular gas.
Umm... where would that be? Right now, here in Louisiana, it's about a 60 to 65 cent differential vs. regular unleaded. This summer, I drove to the Pacific Northwest and back via Wisconsin on the way up and Colorado-KS-Oklahoma coming back, and diesel is always about 40 or so cents more expensive than PREMIUM in all those states: LA, MS, TN, AR, MO, IL, WI, MN, SD, ND, MT, ID, WA, WY, CO, KS, OK, TX - 18 states. I really want to know where diesel costs the same as regular these days, because when I go on vacation next summer, that very well may be my vacation destination! So, I'm inclined to be a diesel fan, but right about the time I bought my superduty, diesel went from being a dime or so CHEAPER than regular to about 20, now 40 cents more EXPENSIVE than premium. Your math still might work out to the advantage of diesel, but you would have to drive a LOT of miles to make up the differential in the original cost of that diesel engine, wouldn't you?
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:08 AM   #12
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Have you ever tried seeing how expensive it would be to haul your trailer with a gas engine? I'm just going by one of our FF's report that diesel was less expensive than regular. IIRC, he was in OH, and it surprised me too. I couldn't find any information. I'd have expected it to be cheaper in ND. I'm surprised it's not.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:19 AM   #13
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Red face The diesel math

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Have you ever tried seeing how expensive it would be to haul your trailer with a gas engine? I'm just going by one of our FF's report that diesel was less expensive than regular. IIRC, he was in OH, and it surprised me too. I couldn't find any information. I'd have expected it to be cheaper in ND. I'm surprised it's not.
From the other RV'ers out there, I'd lose about 3 mpg if I had the big gas engine (v-10) that was available at the time I bought my truck (while pulling my 12,000 lb. 5th wheel) and perhaps even less when not pulling. So, yes, there's still an advantage of perhaps a penny a mile for diesel on balance. On a 20,000 mile driving year, that's 200 dollars. The superduty diesel was about 8,000 dollars more expensive over the big gasser when I purchased, or 40 years to ROI. The economy AT THAT MOMENT was that diesel was ALSO less expensive than gas, and I figured my time to ROI at about 8 years, which would have been coming up shortly... except within a few months of my purchase, the price structure flipped in reverse.

I have relatives in Michigan, and next time I visit there, I'll pay close attention in OH. I think the person reporting that is remembering the happy days for diesel owners, before the dark times came.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:11 AM   #14
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This is what I base what I know on. 03 E350 with 6.0 turbo PS loaded with about a ton of material in the back, and then the trailer with the lift which was easily another ton- that's only 4k lbs. I saw 20 mpg without the trailer, and 17 with the trailer- all this as fast as I could go on the highway. With the 02 5.4, we never saw over 10 mpg (no trailer on that trip, about the same material in the back), and were always stopping for fuel. I also spent a short time in a Duramax 3500 van with a non-turbo diesel. That one never got over 15- hence I believe that diesels should never be without turbos.

Now the hybrid diesel vs hybrid gas is a completely different thing. The diesel engine is better suited for turning generators than gas engines.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:26 AM   #15
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Ford is a reactive company. They only produce what is needed when other companies have been doing for years. Look at the FoFo Small car, hot hatch, mpg market is big now. What does Ford produce? The new FoFo and ST. Look at their trucks and SUVs. Same rules apply. Ecoboost F150 is a prime example. Ford won't bring a diesel over here. Not yet.

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:27 AM   #16
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Ford is a reactive company. They only produce what is needed when other companies have been doing for years. Look at the FoFo. Small car, hot hatch, mpg market is big now. What does Ford produce? The new FoFo and ST. Look at their trucks and SUVs. Same rules apply. Ecoboost F150 is a prime example. Ford won't bring a diesel over here. Not yet.

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:46 AM   #17
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Ford is a reactive company. Ecoboost F150 is a prime example.
The Ecoboost F150 is a prime example of Ford being a proactive company. No other truck has a twin-turbo V6. They started the whole big-truck/big-power/good-mpg trend with it, and no other truck maker can match that combo yet. Sure the V6 Ram gets 25 mpg hwy, but it doesn't have the power that the Ecoboost does.

In fact, I see Ford's Ecoboostization of the product line as very proactive, escpecially for an American automaker. Ford is also trying to change the idea that small car =/= cheap car, in terms of quality, which is clearly evident by the Mk3 Focus. The other automakers are following Ford's lead IMO.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:25 AM   #18
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The Ecoboost F150 is a prime example of Ford being a proactive company. No other truck has a twin-turbo V6. They started the whole big-truck/big-power/good-mpg trend with it, and no other truck maker can match that combo yet. Sure the V6 Ram gets 25 mpg hwy, but it doesn't have the power that the Ecoboost does.

In fact, I see Ford's Ecoboostization of the product line as very proactive, escpecially for an American automaker. Ford is also trying to change the idea that small car =/= cheap car, in terms of quality, which is clearly evident by the Mk3 Focus. The other automakers are following Ford's lead IMO.
^ Exactly! (rep to you) Not to biased, but, Ford has been setting the trend in quite a few segments the last few years, and not just trucks. I only started the thread since Ford has been quite pro active (NOT reactive), and since the Cruz (and the new Mazda6 and 3) will be available in NA with turbo diesel engines, would Ford "react" at all and federalize thier TDCI model Focus for sale over here now.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #19
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Ford, please give us some oil burners in something other than pickups!
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot View Post


This is what I base what I know on. 03 E350 with 6.0 turbo PS loaded with about a ton of material in the back, and then the trailer with the lift which was easily another ton- that's only 4k lbs. I saw 20 mpg without the trailer, and 17 with the trailer- all this as fast as I could go on the highway. With the 02 5.4, we never saw over 10 mpg (no trailer on that trip, about the same material in the back), and were always stopping for fuel. I also spent a short time in a Duramax 3500 van with a non-turbo diesel. That one never got over 15- hence I believe that diesels should never be without turbos.

Now the hybrid diesel vs hybrid gas is a completely different thing. The diesel engine is better suited for turning generators than gas engines.
This is VERY surprising. On average when I had my Super Duty I was averaging 18-20 m.p.g. out of its 6.4 liter twin-turbo Power Stroke(on a couple of instances I got as high as 22 m.p.g.). That was without a trailer but the truck bed and the rear seat was loaded to capacity(SuperCab longbed model). Then again I had a 6-spd manual transmission so that played a role in the high numbers.

YMMV!!
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